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Thread: Teach Me About Pistol Red Dots

  1. #311
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    The “presentation” cons you reference exist with iron sights as well. Where as with a dot, it just needs to be in the window. Also keep in mind that depending on the situation and distance, you may end up essentially “point shooting”. And as far as the RDS failing, that’s why you have backup sights. They also can still be used even if the dot is working. So really you have the best of both on one gun. You can even make the argument that a RDS is superior to iron sights in awkward positions.

    https://youtu.be/mSK5k2lKOek

  2. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    There is absolutely room for error with mounting solutions and red dot quality. We’re getting closer to an easy standard but the average gun owner will screw up mounting a pistol RDS far more than a rifle one. I would put a ton of faith into seeing others fail in that sense, personally.

    What dots have you used that smear in sunlight?

    Agreed on the notion of perfect presentation, that’s why I like the ACSS Vulcan even though it has downsides for others.


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    Trijicon SRO. So far, my AP ACRO P2 has not been problematic but I have far fewer rounds with it. I have advocated for a standard footprint via the factory so we delete the plate issues. I also believe that the ACRO mounting system utilization of the cross bolt is the best mounting solution. I wish Glock would release the MOS 7 to the general public. I use FC plates. My sro came loose once. I had tried vibra instead of blue loctite. After remounting with blue, so far so good.

    I have seen Leupold delta points dot disappear and/or turn into a line. Perhaps they are built better as this was a few years ago. I have seen my share of RMR’s die. I never ran a holosun but friends have them. They have had some issues but seem to be pretty happy currently. Seems holosun has improved.

    Over the years, I can’t tell you how many times a competitor yelled out, “damn dot died.” I think closed emit are the future and if the aimpoint ACRO proves to be as bulletproof as the T2 etc, I may change my approach.

    Cheers, Steve

  3. #313
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    [QUOTE=Inkslinger;3074563]The “presentation” cons you reference exist with iron sights as well. Where as with a dot, it just needs to be in the window. Also keep in mind that depending on the situation and distance, you may end up essentially “point shooting”. And as far as the RDS failing, that’s why you have backup sights. They also can still be used even if the dot is working. So really you have the best of both on one gun. You can even make the argument that a RDS is superior to iron sights in awkward positions.

    I appreciate your thoughts. For me, the presentation issues with irons is almost invisible. I can see where the sight is and correct appropriately if need be. If it is a bit left or high etc I still know where the bullet will hit. It may be the difference of a C hit vs A hit. If shooting 50 yard standards, then it is more important. I am just not there with a dot. If it isn’t in the window or I have a smear, I seem to get momentarily distracted and then move to option two. Perhaps with more training and practice, I will get better.

    For competition I may give up some time but for ccw this con outweighs the dot. You are absolutely correct that in many situations, considering the distance and threat issue, I am point shooting. I rarely see the front sight for close in targets out to about 8 yards. It is all muscle memory. This has played out in real life.

    So, for me, at this time, I enjoy shooting my dots at the range and in competition but for ccw, I’m not there-yet and may not ever.

    As an aside, I could never imagine not having a dot on my M4’s. I only have irons on a few of my M4’s. Another item. I had the kids and grandkids out on the range. My oldest grandson likes to do mag dumps. I am working with him regarding accuracy. He shoots irons ok. I then gave him a Glock with a dot. He shot much better. In asking him why, he replied that all his video games he grew on had the equivalent to dots. If he goes into law enforcement I don’t think irons will even be considered. I am trying to talk him into going to medical school. as is his dad who is LEO.

    Cheers, Steve
    Last edited by ssc; 11-26-22 at 23:35.

  4. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappabear View Post
    Sell your current Glock inventory and buy another MOS Glock, dont **** with Milling unless the mfg doesn't offer optics ready guns. Glock makes them obviously so take advantage of that. RDS on handguns has been game changer. Only RDS I have had issues with are the Sig handgun RDS. My RMR, SRO and Holosun optics have been very reliable. Sig is hit and miss.

    PB
    I’m not looking to transition a fleet of pistols from irons only to dots. That said, my choice was to buy a G19 MOS. This is because I don’t like making permanent modifications to my firearms like milling the factory slide, and I also don’t like replacing major components (like slides) with aftermarket parts.

    The MOS certainly has its drawbacks though. The optic sits higher than it would if you had the slide milled. The factory plates are also of questionable quality and lack recoil lugs which puts all the shear force on the mounting screws. I would 100% not run the Glock MOS system without a C&H precision adapter plate, which are excellent. Some of the best money I’ve spent on gun parts ever.

  5. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by comm2679 View Post
    I’m not looking to transition a fleet of pistols from irons only to dots. That said, my choice was to buy a G19 MOS. This is because I don’t like making permanent modifications to my firearms like milling the factory slide, and I also don’t like replacing major components (like slides) with aftermarket parts.

    The MOS certainly has its drawbacks though. The optic sits higher than it would if you had the slide milled. The factory plates are also of questionable quality and lack recoil lugs which puts all the shear force on the mounting screws. I would 100% not run the Glock MOS system without a C&H precision adapter plate, which are excellent. Some of the best money I’ve spent on gun parts ever.
    You'd be in the slim minority. I'd never run CHPWS and never recommend them to anyone. A simple google search of "CHWPS issues" will tell why.

  6. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowSpeed_HighDrag View Post
    You'd be in the slim minority. I'd never run CHPWS and never recommend them to anyone. A simple google search of "CHWPS issues" will tell why.
    Yup. Seen more than enough bad about the company and product over the years.


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  7. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowSpeed_HighDrag View Post
    You'd be in the slim minority. I'd never run CHPWS and never recommend them to anyone. A simple google search of "CHWPS issues" will tell why.
    I didn’t spend a whole ton of time searching, mind you, but I found one guy on Reddit who broke a nut torquing his down, and one other guy who’s plate was tweaked so he had a gap between it and his slide. I wasn’t aware of those issues, but it doesn’t seem like rampant problems to me. Could you shed some more light? I’ve got one of their kits on a G19 and another on a P320. Both seem to be machined well with a good tight fit from slide to plate and from plate to optic.

    ETA: I’m not trying to defend my purchase or anything. I’ve got no emotional attachment to my deciding to use C&H stuff, and if they’re prone to failure I want to know about it. I’m actually considering going back to irons only on all my pistols. Just sharing that my sample size of 2 C&H products has been quality parts.
    Last edited by comm2679; 12-03-22 at 11:12.

  8. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by comm2679 View Post
    I’m not looking to transition a fleet of pistols from irons only to dots. That said, my choice was to buy a G19 MOS. This is because I don’t like making permanent modifications to my firearms like milling the factory slide, and I also don’t like replacing major components (like slides) with aftermarket parts.

    The MOS certainly has its drawbacks though. The optic sits higher than it would if you had the slide milled. The factory plates are also of questionable quality and lack recoil lugs which puts all the shear force on the mounting screws. I would 100% not run the Glock MOS system without a C&H precision adapter plate, which are excellent. Some of the best money I’ve spent on gun parts ever.
    From what I have seen and heard of the plates, I decided if I was gonna do it I would do it "right" and have the slide milled and RDS directly attached. For $200, the milled the slide, attached the RDS, and re coated the slide. They did an excellent job of it. Only read drawback is it limits you to changing RDS to another brand.
    Last edited by WillBrink; 12-03-22 at 09:35.
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  9. #319
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    You could use forward control plates instead of chpws or you could have Agency mill their AOS system and use their plates. I almost went for the agency option until Jager had a big sale.
    "Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day."

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  10. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Only read drawback is it limits you to changing RDS to another brand.
    How likely is that for most people? Sure there are a few who need to try every new model that comes out, mainly those with a YT channel or competitive shooters that are always looking for any fractional advantage.

    There have only been a few real advances in the last 20 years and even less of those required a different mount.

    The ACRO, the EPS, and maybe the SCS because it’s so low, are the only that stand out as both real improvements and don’t fit on a regular RMR cut slide.

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