Teach Me About Pistol Red Dots

[WillBrink]

Un popular opinion, I'm still not sold on them for SD pistols due in large part to people I generally trust, who have forgotten more about combat handguns then I will ever know, not being sold on them.

Pros and cons, still not convinced the pros out weigh cons enough to invest the $, have to now train up to being proficient with them, etc.

My minimal experience with them didn't leave me with a "I gotta have that on my carry pistol!" impression at all. Quite the opposite.

[RHINOWSO]

I was not an early adopter of RDS on handguns but I'm sold now.

Doing drills side by side on the time between a RDS and irons only gun tell the tail. Speed and accuracy really improved beyond 7 yards and allow for a target focus instead of front sight at all ranges.

Does everyone need it, when the typical SD shooting is <3 shot, <3 seconds, <3 yards? No, probably not - people survived for decades without them - but to me, outside of close contact range shooting, I'm glad to have them on my carry handguns.

I started with RMRs, but those are piggyback on rifles now and Holosun 507C/K and 509s are what I use on handguns.

[markm]

Un popular opinion, I'm still not sold on them for SD pistols due in large part to people I generally trust, who have forgotten more about combat handguns then I will ever know, not being sold on them.

Pros and cons, still not convinced the pros out weigh cons enough to invest the $, have to now train up to being proficient with them, etc.

My minimal experience with them didn't leave me with a "I gotta have that on my carry pistol!" impression at all. Quite the opposite.

I'm betting in 2-5 years, the mounting and reliability will be greatly improved. I'm no where near pulling the trigger on an RDS pistol set up for myself, but I do feel they're advantageous for pistol marksmanship for sure. I get to shoot these set ups weekly, and the RDS is a good thing.

[WillBrink]

I was not an early adopter of RDS on handguns but I'm sold now.

Doing drills side by side on the time between a RDS and irons only gun tell the tail. Speed and accuracy really improved beyond 7 yards and allow for a target focus instead of front sight at all ranges.

Does everyone need it, when the typical SD shooting is <3 shot, <3 seconds, <3 yards? No, probably not - people survived for decades without them - but to me, outside of close contact range shooting, I'm glad to have them on my carry handguns.

I started with RMRs, but those are piggyback on rifles now and Holosun 507C/K and 509s are what I use on handguns.

And do they improve the scores in those reality based SD distances? I have no doubts at farther distances, they are superior for hits on targets. My personal interests are realistic and statistically "real world" supported SD distances and times, and as important, peripheral vision, SA, weight, size added to CCW, etc. and of course reliability of the RMR.

I'm betting in 2-5 years, the mounting and reliability will be greatly improved. I'm no where near pulling the trigger on an RDS pistol set up for myself, but I do feel they're advantageous for pistol marksmanship for sure. I get to shoot these set ups weekly, and the RDS is a good thing.

I'd want to get a separate dedicated pistol for that to train up on, and that's cost of pistol, RDS, and added ammo and time and perhaps a course to all that, and for myself, does not add up to $ spent and time I could use to work on skill with existing non RDS pistols.

I do see both sides of the equation, but I'm at best made it to neutral on it now. I wanted to do that on the new Wilson, but don't like their mounting system, and good RMRs (and anything less than the good stuff of no interest to me) are the cost of another pistol or could go towards a lot of ammo.

Need to borrow or even rent an RMR pistol and spend some more range time with it.

[Defaultmp3]

And do they improve the scores in those reality based SD distances? I have no doubts at farther distances, they are superior for hits on targets. My personal interests are realistic and statistically "real world" supported SD distances and times, and as important, peripheral vision, SA, weight, size added to CCW, etc. and of course reliability of the RMR.

The ability to be target focused gives you far more situational awareness when using an RDS. As for "reality based SD distances", the advantage of an RDS is skewed toward accuracy, and that is applicable at any distance.

I'd want to get a separate dedicated pistol for that to train up on, and that's cost of pistol, RDS, and added ammo and time and perhaps a course to all that, and for myself, does not add up to $ spent and time I could use to work on skill with existing non RDS pistols.

The cost of an RDS is a case or two of 9mm; you would likely get far more out of a pistol with an RDS than you would with those couple cases of ammo, simply because it gives way more visual feedback, particularly when doing dry practice. The transition from irons to RDS can be done almost totally dry, as you can easily work draws and transitions totally dry.

[Disciple]

However, I am intrigued by this Leopold Delta micro and I've thought about putting an RDS on my M&P 2.0 .45 so I've ordered one for it.

Please try it in very low light where it is hard to orient the pistol by silhouette. It seems like it could be hard to find the dot in that circumstance.

[WillBrink]

The ability to be target focused gives you far more situational awareness when using an RDS. As for "reality based SD distances", the advantage of an RDS is skewed toward accuracy, and that is applicable at any distance.

The cost of an RDS is a case or two of 9mm; you would likely get far more out of a pistol with an RDS than you would with those couple cases of ammo, simply because it gives way more visual feedback, particularly when doing dry practice. The transition from irons to RDS can be done almost totally dry, as you can easily work draws and transitions totally dry.

That makes sense and an aspect I had not considered. That helps with $ part for sure.

[markm]

Need to borrow or even rent an RMR pistol and spend some more range time with it.

That's a start. But you kinda need a holster set up too. Shooting from the draw gives you the full experience. For me finding the dot on a gun I'm not used to can be a challenge.... especially in time compressed drills.

[RHINOWSO]

And do they improve the scores in those reality based SD distances?

I guess the proper term is the most 'probable' SD distances.

But in reality if you play the odds, you are fine carrying nothing at all. Or a 5 shot j-frame with no sights.

Most here want to tip the odds heavily in their favor in all realms.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I don't know about that. But I do know the RDS has a lot of room for reliability improvement. I'm all for the RDS on pistols. I just want them at the level of reliability that you'd get with an H1 on a carbine for example.

I never see buddies standing on the firing line tryna figger out why their rifle dot aint working.... or why it's not zeroed, etc. My only rifle RDS failure was due to that stupid dip finish on the upper that let the mount break loose.

Your experience is in line with mine. I have an RMR on my Berretta and an Acro P2 on my Glock. The Acro is new and has been good. But the RMR has shaken loose multiple times. Mind you, I typically shoot every weekend and do a shitload of draws and barrier drills, so maybe my use is a little rougher than some. But The fact of the matter is that You have to be very careful with cleaning, locktite, torque settings and even additional oil pen staking and still the thing is going to come loose. I think the best way to go would be a frame mount or one of the weird setups like the Alien. Rocking back and forth on the slide is hard on optics and mounts, that's just a fact.

That being said I keep practicing with them. I am pretty close to my irons sight times up close on the timer and of course walk-back drills with the ACRO are absurd and put the irons to shame.