Teach Me About Pistol Red Dots

[titsonritz]

What makes it vastly inferior to 1913?

1913 is much easier and faster to mount stuff, it is a stronger attachment method and there is zero concern with placement trying to avoid interference with the gas block, gas tube or barrel.

It requires brain cells to mount something to it correctly.

It isn't rocket surgery but there is no denying 1913 is easier and faster to mount something.

[titsonritz]

So... why does it suck? And I personally see a lot of benefits in it, such as lower manufacturing costs, the possibility of a smaller OD for a handguard while still being able to mount things, less snaggy, less weight, etc.

I don't think they suck and you are correct with the benefit, like everything else there are pros and cons to both.

[yoni]

I bought them a long time ago and have shot them a bunch, it was time for a change. But nobody made what I wanted .

So here is the breakdown on cost for new parts.

1. Frame was a little over $80 on sale
2. New front sight and Leupold Delta $260
3. New trigger, trigger bar and return spring like $75
4. KKM 6 inch 357 sig barrel $165

Took all the rest of the parts off the Glock frame the connector was original - connector. The trigger is not as light as my SA on my CZ Cajun P07 which is 2.5 pounds, but it isn't over 3.5 pounds

[WillBrink]

I bought them a long time ago and have shot them a bunch, it was time for a change. But nobody made what I wanted .

So here is the breakdown on cost for new parts.

1. Frame was a little over $80 on sale
2. New front sight and Leupold Delta $260
3. New trigger, trigger bar and return spring like $75
4. KKM 6 inch 357 sig barrel $165

Took all the rest of the parts off the Glock frame the connector was original - connector. The trigger is not as light as my SA on my CZ Cajun P07 which is 2.5 pounds, but it isn't over 3.5 pounds

All the after market offerings does allow you to choose/mix and match and customize a pistol that fits and and needs no doubt. That's a strong plus for Glock I hadn't really calculated, gotten to lazy over the years to muck with pistols like that I admit. I did find the HK VP9 so good out of the box, there was little changes I wanted to make, none I needed to make.

M&P I had, I did changed the sights and added Apex trigger kit. Was not terribly accurate, but boringly reliable.

The VP9 is surprisingly accurate and been boringly reliable.

[WillBrink]

New vid from Ken H on red dots:

[kirkland]

New vid from Ken H on red dots:

Really great video and just confirms a lot of my thinking on pistol red dots. The biggest disadvantage in my opinion is the possibility of losing the dot, having to reacquire the dot, or if the dot has failed, switching to irons. On a rifle it's completely different. It's very easy to get behind your optic on a rifle. With four points of contact and a longer stick which naturally helps to get lined up correctly, the dot is gonna be there, you won't have to hunt to find it. With a pistol being held out in front of you at arm's length and only supported by your wrists, it's much easier to have a slight misalignment, and it doesn't take much for the dot to be out of the window. Smaller optic, farther away from your eye = less forgiving of misalignment.

His points about the amount of practice required get proficient with one and the extra added maintenance made a lot of sense too. I love red dots on rifles, they're proven and work great. There's no denying the aiming advantage they have over iron sights. Full size red dots made for rifles have rock solid mounting and longer battery life and it's not something that really needs to be worried about compared to the mini red dots on pistols.

I'd still like to aquire one at some point for range practice. But for carry pistol I'll be sticking with irons for the foreseeable future.

[WillBrink]

Really great video and just confirms a lot of my thinking on pistol red dots. The biggest disadvantage in my opinion is the possibility of losing the dot, having to reacquire the dot, or if the dot has failed, switching to irons. On a rifle it's completely different. It's very easy to get behind your optic on a rifle. With four points of contact and a longer stick which naturally helps to get lined up correctly, the dot is gonna be there, you won't have to hunt to find it. With a pistol being held out in front of you at arm's length and only supported by your wrists, it's much easier to have a slight misalignment, and it doesn't take much for the dot to be out of the window. Smaller optic, farther away from your eye = less forgiving of misalignment.

His points about the amount of practice required get proficient with one and the extra added maintenance made a lot of sense too. I love red dots on rifles, they're proven and work great. There's no denying the aiming advantage they have over iron sights. Full size red dots made for rifles have rock solid mounting and longer battery life and it's not something that really needs to be worried about compared to the mini red dots on pistols.

I'd still like to aquire one at some point for range practice. But for carry pistol I'll be sticking with irons for the foreseeable future.

I'm still 50/50 on red dots on pistols, slowly getting toward 60/40 in favor as members convince me of the value.

[markm]

I'm still 50/50 on red dots on pistols, slowly getting toward 60/40 in favor as members convince me of the value.

I'm on the sideline for another 2-3 years at least. I have to see better mounting and reliability before digging into my wallet.

[kirkland]

I'm still 50/50 on red dots on pistols, slowly getting toward 60/40 in favor as members convince me of the value.

I'm open minded. I was reading the other thread too and seeing some of the members emphatically state that they are better once you train enough to overcome the issues I mentioned. Like I said I would like to own one and give training with it a real try.

[ViniVidivici]

I fully agree that mounting issues and all the different footprints are a bit ridiculous...when I saw all of them, I thought "why not just machine a pic rail into the slide and have everything fit that?!?!"

Understandable though, design and manufacturing proprietary issues in the beginning endure.

No matter though. It's still more than doable. Seems like you cant go wrong with the RMR footprint for a solid open emitter type.

I'll say that cost was always the main thing keeping me out of this loop...I finally said eff it and bit the bullet, glad I did.

I'd always factored the cost of a case worth of ammo/components to get up to speed, but was delighted to realize that a few hundred rounds in, I was confident and capable with it.

No expert here, just a mediocre shooter, as anyone can see looking at my DOTW entries over on P-F, so if I can get there, anyone can.