Russia Talk (not current event per se)

[WillBrink]

I wonder how much concern there was that Russia might do a settlement with the Germans? I think we know now that the likelihood was basically zero, but with out LLA, it becomes a much harder fight- one the Russians probably prevail, but maybe not. After the end of WWI and the Russians already actually having allied with the Germans, it was impossible.

Alternate history- no LLA, things get really dire. Stalin pushes the no surrender/meat grinder line, but ends up getting whacked and a realpolitik Russian sues for peace. Maybe the Germans don’t take it. Maybe the Russian/Soviet empire that never really was ends up like the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and people wonder why it was a thing. And Germany has access to all the Russian resources..

We assume Stalin is a constant. He could also be a variable…

Once Stalin came out of his depression and drinking binge over Hitler stabbing him the back, Stalin would have thrown every last man, women, and child at the German's. We can't be in his head of course, but it seems that considering that Staling learned the hard way an agreement with Hitler not worth the paper it was written on, he didn't view surrender an option, and rightly so really. Hold the German's off until winter arrives (what's really saved the Russians historically) and grind the Germans down, etc. as they did. Even of they'd finally lost the large scale offensives, at huge costs to the Germans, it would have been one hell of an ongoing grinder and resource sucker. The Russians were many things, but they were not cheese eating surrender monkeys like the French.

In that context, I view Stalin as a constant. But, I'm not sure how the Allies viewed him at that point, so perhaps that's how they hedged their bets he would not give up if they supplied enough stuff to allow them to turn it around and drive the German's back finally.

[Nocaster]

The article that Will linked to mentioned that some LLA came into Russia via Valadivostok? My mistake was thinking that everything came around the Arctic, while a lot came in through Iran too- but Vladivostock? I know the Japanesse and Russians weren't at war, but were Russian ships coming from America and passing by Japan???

Holy Crap? Half the LLA material went the Pacific route? Only 'non-military' stuff, but trucks and raw materials- on Russian Ships INSPECTED BY THE JAPANESE????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Route


WWII just got even weirder. I though the Finnish thing was crazy....

My grandfather was a Soviet pilot that flew American planes from Siberia to the front during WW2

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[WillBrink]

My grandfather was a Soviet pilot that flew American planes from Siberia to the front during WW2

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Now that's interesting! Got any cool pics?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

From todays RealClearDefense reading list:

https://www.wearethemighty.com/artic...-soviet-union/

Churchill had a plan to turn and burn the Russians after WWII…

[WillBrink]

From todays RealClearDefense reading list:

https://www.wearethemighty.com/artic...-soviet-union/

Churchill had a plan to turn and burn the Russians after WWII…

"Churchill did not trust Stalin to keep his word about holding free elections in countries liberated from the Nazis by the Red Army. He believed it was Stalin’s intention to keep his troops in those countries and subject them to domination from Moscow, instead of Berlin, simply trading one absolute dictatorship for another." and he was 100% correct and Stalin then murdered more of his own people than Hitler could imagine. F that guy.

As mentioned in the OP, various generals felt same, Patton, per usual, being the most vocal about it. Pushing the commies at least back to their own pre WWII borders may have made sense all things considered, but people were done with war and no doubt would have been a very un popular move. Coming back to the LLA:

"They would also benefit from removing the Allied assistance given to the USSR during World War II..."

[SteyrAUG]

Russia was not like any other country and not a chance in hell they would have been able run, much less control, that one with a division. The outcome of not doing the LLA thing is always interesting conjecture to me though.

Germany would have only cared that they punish those left alive in the former Soviet territories. There would be Germans in Ukraine and the westerns half of Russia. The former occupants, those deemed acceptable to live and work, would be relocated to the outer territories and governed by something like the Judenrat.

There would be a lot fewer Russians than you imagine to govern and the Germans would have set it up so that they were liquidating themselves. With a German victory the idea was to empty the new living space of ALL undesirables, keep those they deem suitable for labor as needed and then repopulate with Germans or others of aryan/nordic stock.

Coast to Coast Germania was the plan.

[Nocaster]

Now that's interesting! Got any cool pics?

Not that I can really access, it's at my mom's house. If I find one, I'll post. Sort of funny, but growing up there was an altimeter gauge from an American plane around the house that grandpa kept as a souvenir (hopefully not stolen from a functional plane). He died just before I was born, so I didn't get any cool stories .

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