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Thread: OIF/OEF Veterans. Technical Lessons Learned wanted

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rharris2163 View Post
    Have permanent survey teams at every Fort, Camp, Airbase to get to those teams rotating back to the US.
    Agreed, and I will gladly e-mail my thoughts from my experiences.
    "Intelligence is not the ability to regurgitate information. It is the ability to make sound decisions on a consistent basis "--me

    "Just remember, when you are talking to the average person, you are talking to a television set"--RDJB

    One Big Ass Mistake America

  2. #12
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    huntgrouse, thanks for the PM. Honestly, the Army is full of know-nothings who fancy themselves as would-be COIN operators. I pay them no mind.

    Almost everything there is to say is well known on the internet or in the popular gun press.

    The funny thing about weapon mods is that nearly all of the popular ones violate AR 738-750. Army inertia, particularly in the Ordnance Branch, is very bad. PEO Soldier does a pretty good job. At least they have sort of a suggestion box on their site.

    Anyway a few more thoughts:

    As to training, TRADOC is nearly impenetrable. 'Warrior Ethos' is little more than a buzzword. For this concept to mean anything outside of the Combat Arms community, the Army (as an organizations) needs to develop a true warrior culture. I believe that fully 75% of the Army would be perfectly at home working at the DMV or some other low speed high drag civil service job. The organization needs to be considerably more thick skinned and considerably less PC. Emphasis needs to placed on combat related physical training (not just passing the APFT), combatives, and weapons training.

    Single point slings. Mounting single point receiver end plates is very popular in some circles.

    Get some damn Beretta OEM sand resistant mags!

  3. #13
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    The single poing slings worked well with me .Single point slings don't get in the way of mag changes. I had a three point sling and while it was cool and chicks dug it, it got in the way of reloading.

  4. #14
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    Slings: what works best and why for in MRAP, M1151, M114, SUV’s, for dismounted,
    I favored the VTAC sling over the Vickers.
    The vickers sling would always slip under the weight of my M4, requiring constant adjustment .
    The vtac held fast.
    This was in 1114/1151 and dismounted.

    ACOG: pros cons, issues. Holding zero. Engaging targets at log range. CCO: Comp M2 or Comp M4 same questions as with ACOG
    I had family from home ship me an ACOG w/doctor optic & GG&G mount. Afghanistan is rifle country and the engagement ranges are longer than MOUT scenarios. We had other soldiers purchase ACOGs also (unit issued CCO). Especially helpful when scanning likely hiding places in villages across the valley.
    Once mounted , the Doc optic didn't need to be re-zero'd at 25m.

    Same basic questions for M9.
    I turned in my M9 back into supply once we were in country, didn't feel the need to carry the extra weight, especially with ball ammo.
    Last edited by azidpa; 01-10-09 at 20:54.
    the will to win is nothing without the will to prepare.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABN View Post
    My introduction to gun boards, was a result of me trying to find better ways to do my job. And it turned out to be very helpful.

    I'll put together a more comprehensive e-mail together. It should be very interesting to compile this data and see the common denominators. I'll try to keep my contribution to what I would see as feasible and practical. I would also like to note I've been out of the Army for almost 3 years now, so some of my input could be moot point or such programs may exist without my knowledge.

    A couple things,

    "Check the box" training is the wrong answer. I read an article in the Army Times, about new philosphies regarding training. Of course there has to be some guidelines. But I'd like see more "train the trainer" programs producing greater expertise and see civilian resources encorporated and raise the bar on Soldiering skills. Personally, I think the FM's are a good starting point and obviously neccessary but there's alot more out there. Especially considering we want to produce professional gunfighters.

    I think AAR's are a great tool. I'd like to see a Lessons Learned computerized data base, which leaders can draw on. As an analogy, If you got only a couple senior NCO's talking shop, you have alot of years experience and knowledge. I think it would be very beneficial to make categorized and specific AAR's available to other units. The format would have to be in a detailed written format. The program could deminish different units making similar mistakes.

    Good luck with the program
    Agreed, The weapons qual courses, pop ups, paper target BS needs to go. The Military needs to get together with some Private Training Firms and establish a new Training / Qual table which more accurately depicts what we do in combat. The SF guys train this way some high speed infantry units do too but too many regular units just do the minimum paper zero and pop up target qual from Prone supported, prone unsupported, kneeling. Seriously how many times do guys in Iraq and Afg lay down with a freaking sand bag and shoot "whack a mole" pop up insurgents who stand up for a couple of seconds and then lay down?

  6. #16
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    [QUOTE=Armati;284161]
    As to training, TRADOC is nearly impenetrable. 'Warrior Ethos' is little more than a buzzword. For this concept to mean anything outside of the Combat Arms community, the Army (as an organizations) needs to develop a true warrior culture. I believe that fully 75% of the Army would be perfectly at home working at the DMV or some other low speed high drag civil service job. The organization needs to be considerably more thick skinned and considerably less PC. Emphasis needs to placed on combat related physical training (not just passing the APFT), combatives, and weapons training.
    QUOTE]

    Amen! I have been in active 14+ years split between SOF and the 82nd ABN Div. I am not a shooter (11B) But I agree completely that the military in general but especially the Army is far too PC. We care more about offending someone than properly training them. I could write a book on how the Army has gone wrong. It used to be when someone joined the military they expected it to be tough, they expected to get their feelings hurt, and be pushed to the limits of their physical capibilities. Not any more! Soldiers are given more slack today than can be imagined. It used to be a good dose of humiliation and PT would cure any issue but now its all about counseling and corrective training. I am glad I only have a few years left.

  7. #17
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    If your thermal sight looks like this, turn it off when not in use or remove the battery (if you can do so without using a gerber on the broken latch.) I had a horrible time getting these batteries in theater and it didnt help when the previous shift put them away without turning them off in the morning.


  8. #18
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    CALL can't fix poor training or lax discipline. Complacency is the #1 killer of soldiers. Troops get lulled into this mindset that 'nothing has happened so nothing will happen.'

    However, WTF is with the latch on the battery box of the PVS-13? Who approved this thing? Military equipment needs to go through some sort of soldier vetting process prior to acceptance. And what is with that battery? Just what the Army needs - another special battery! It does come with a AA battery adapter but a lot of them are missing in the field. Another fine tradition in procurement - buy things with a lot of easily lost or broken components.

  9. #19
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    Any experience with PMAG’s in combat, how they hold up, how they function., how they compare to issue mags
    PMAGs worked for the 6 months of abuse I gave them. Also PMAGS worked out of the M249 during the few mags that I ran through 100%. HK mags are heavier and and have had one out of 12 that would double feed.

    Slings: what works best and why for in MRAP, M1151, M114, SUV’s, for dismounted,
    I just like a slide sling swivel under the front sight post and attach to the rear. Sling point bounce around to much and bang my knees when walking and hands are preform other tasks. At least with a two point its muzzle is pointed to the side and doesn't bang knees.

    Sights; what BUIS works best. Any issues with durability, holding zero, falling off the weapon
    I have used the Knights 300m, ARMS 40L and Matech. I like the ARMS 40L (did have one nut come loose, fix with lock tight) and Matech (I am confident to take 500m shots with Irons with my M4)

    ACOG: pros cons, issues. Holding zero. Engaging targets at log range
    Have used the TA01NSN model for 13 years now and it is a great piece of equipment. Last year used one with a JPoint mount above the ACOG. Use the 8MOA dot and not the 4 MOA.

    CCO: Comp M2 or Comp M4 same questions as with ACOG
    Have used the Comp M2, EOTech 552, C-More and Trijicon Reflex. The Aimpoint and EOTech are the best in my experience. C-More's lack positive adjustment when zeroing and its guess work. Trijicon Reflex wasn't bright enough but that was in 1995.

    After market personally purchased gear: what works, what doesn’t
    Crimison Trace Laser Grips are a great enhancer. I've used them on M1911A1s, M9s and SIG 226s. The allow the shooter to shot will moving with great accuracy and speed. When preforming room clearing tasks you can point your pistol around corners, beds, tables, etc and still know if you'll hit a target if one emerges.

    What works for maintenance that isn’t being taught.
    Keep it clean and lubed.

    Training ?
    Regular Army doesn't train to standard just time. Too much bull, paperwork, range safety requirements that a squad/platoon can not train as a whole and takes too much time and resources. I've conduct 100s of safe ranges with only one RO and medic for just not SF but regular Army and foriegn troops.

    Same basic questions for M9.
    Clean and lube. The Army doesn't teach how to use the handgun in combat just load and shoot.

    Anything you want to tell me about the weapons
    The M203 needs a better training round for blank fire exercises. Its never used so troops don't remember to use it in combat to full extent. I learned a valuable lesson in the First Gulf War in combat. "Train as you fight, Fight as you Train"

    CD
    US Army MSG retired 1983-2008
    Iraq 91,03-06,&08
    Last edited by Combat_Diver; 03-06-09 at 23:21. Reason: added info

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp0319 View Post
    Agreed, The weapons qual courses, pop ups, paper target BS needs to go. The Military needs to get together with some Private Training Firms and establish a new Training / Qual table which more accurately depicts what we do in combat. The SF guys train this way some high speed infantry units do too but too many regular units just do the minimum paper zero and pop up target qual from Prone supported, prone unsupported, kneeling. Seriously how many times do guys in Iraq and Afg lay down with a freaking sand bag and shoot "whack a mole" pop up insurgents who stand up for a couple of seconds and then lay down?
    X3.

    All the PC crap is just that...crap. Get rid of all A2s except for a "joe" or two designated as a longer range engagers and give everyone else a M4. and everyone good sights and optics. Good God, what a pain it is to stack and breach with a A2. Teach them, truly teach them, how to shoot from any conceivable situation or platform, not just from the foxhole supported and prone unsupported positions, blah FM23.9(or whatever it's called now) blah blah crap. If the Army continues to use outdated techniques then it is only maxing the minimum. And some NCOs that DO NOT enforce the standards and pass someone that didn't earn it...well shame on you and I hope you sleep well knowing that you may have a hand in that soldiers death in combat for not teaching them properly. Green Berets are the smallest branch in the Army and are trained to train indigs very well. Enlarge the concept of training to include their way, and all of the SF community's way of doing things. The SAS uses only live ammo when they train and no casualties. Hmmm, wonder why that is? Maybe because they train like the fight. Sounds familiar doesn't it? As soon as the root evil of PC and the watch/clock goes away and thick skin returns can the Army truly be a magnificent job and career to have again. Remember to train to STANDARD not to time.

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