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Thread: OIF/OEF Veterans. Technical Lessons Learned wanted

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrasa View Post
    Not sure if I have much input here as of now,

    but I'm fresh outta OSUT (Infantry) and stationed at Ft. Lewis with the 5th brigade 2nd ID. and I can honestly say that i am 100% undertrained for our deployment on Feb 27th to the 'stan. we got issued M16a2's here (with the plastic handguards and fixd carry handle) and were told we'd be deploying with these rifles...... when we went to the zeroing/qualifying range (in one day) I was able to zero the weapon easily enough.. but while trying to Qual, i had 3 jams... 2 double feeds and 1 where the bullet got caught on the chamber. after we got done at the range we turned them in (without cleaning) and havent touched them since. After being a civilian shooter for about.. 8 years now, i know that's a big no no (not cleaning your weapon)

    Back in Basic we trained with old M16A4's with Comp M2's. they worked pretty well so long as they were cleaned. but the closest we came to any type of hardcore training was running up a lane shooting pop ups from behind barracades with a battle buddy calling out "moving - Move" etc. etc.

    Most of my training in the Stan' will be on the job, rolling out in strykers and foot marches learning as I go, which, according to common sense, isn't safe in the least. all they pound into our brains here is CLS and IED stuff. nothing about react to contact and such...

    That's just my $.02 on it as an infantryman straight outta basic.
    You have got to be kidding me man, I had heard it was bad but damn.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrasa View Post
    Not sure if I have much input here as of now,

    but I'm fresh outta OSUT (Infantry) and stationed at Ft. Lewis with the 5th brigade 2nd ID. and I can honestly say that i am 100% undertrained for our deployment on Feb 27th to the 'stan. we got issued M16a2's here (with the plastic handguards and fixd carry handle) and were told we'd be deploying with these rifles...... when we went to the zeroing/qualifying range (in one day) I was able to zero the weapon easily enough.. but while trying to Qual, i had 3 jams... 2 double feeds and 1 where the bullet got caught on the chamber. after we got done at the range we turned them in (without cleaning) and havent touched them since. After being a civilian shooter for about.. 8 years now, i know that's a big no no (not cleaning your weapon)

    Back in Basic we trained with old M16A4's with Comp M2's. they worked pretty well so long as they were cleaned. but the closest we came to any type of hardcore training was running up a lane shooting pop ups from behind barracades with a battle buddy calling out "moving - Move" etc. etc.

    Most of my training in the Stan' will be on the job, rolling out in strykers and foot marches learning as I go, which, according to common sense, isn't safe in the least. all they pound into our brains here is CLS and IED stuff. nothing about react to contact and such...

    That's just my $.02 on it as an infantryman straight outta basic.
    I agree with CD. Get some quality mags and keep your BCG lubed. Might want to pick up a Magpul Art of the Tactical Carbine I, to look at since it's too late to get in a carbine course. Good luck.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  3. #43
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    Yeah, the shit's crazy here. Had my mom ship my Pmags, from home up. should have them today aswell as a knife and my Olight. Definatly gonna be picking up more Pmags (like hopefully around 30) and might pick up a good optic.

    I'll have to pick up those magpul training classes. be something to pass the time on the flight over. We were told that we might the the A2's swapped out for M4's upon arrival in the stan' dunno if it's like 100% for sure yet tho. I hope so

    Thanks for all the advice guys! It's all extremely valuable and much appreciated.
    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."
    -Ernest Hemingway

  4. #44
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    Garassa, I was in iraq from dec '04 to dec'05, and in my experience, the rifle you ship over with is the rifle you got. so while things may have changed, I would be prepared to "use what you gots". stay safe, and don't let your guard down.

  5. #45
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    I didn't used to believe it but wetter is better for rifles in the sandbox. In 04-05 issued an m16a4 (IRAQ) then in 08 (AFGN) issued M4 no problems with either or my m9 for that matter. m9 mags need to be disassembled and cleaned very frequently to work well. training both rotations was box checker type stuff- was told and can actually beleive it that a lot of the reasons for all the sign in sheets verifing training etc is so when some widow or parent loses someone and claims death due to lack of training they can pull out documents and say see, he did go to IED class. Training for oef in 07/08 WAS better than what we got in 04 but only by a little. As a field grade officer I can say in my experience the lower the rank of instructor, the better the training was. We were at Bragg and did get some good training(when the box checkers were not looking!)

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrasa View Post
    Not sure if I have much input here as of now,

    but I'm fresh outta OSUT (Infantry) and stationed at Ft. Lewis with the 5th brigade 2nd ID. and I can honestly say that i am 100% undertrained for our deployment on Feb 27th to the 'stan. we got issued M16a2's here (with the plastic handguards and fixd carry handle) and were told we'd be deploying with these rifles...... when we went to the zeroing/qualifying range (in one day) I was able to zero the weapon easily enough.. but while trying to Qual, i had 3 jams... 2 double feeds and 1 where the bullet got caught on the chamber. after we got done at the range we turned them in (without cleaning) and havent touched them since. After being a civilian shooter for about.. 8 years now, i know that's a big no no (not cleaning your weapon)

    Back in Basic we trained with old M16A4's with Comp M2's. they worked pretty well so long as they were cleaned. but the closest we came to any type of hardcore training was running up a lane shooting pop ups from behind barracades with a battle buddy calling out "moving - Move" etc. etc.

    Most of my training in the Stan' will be on the job, rolling out in strykers and foot marches learning as I go, which, according to common sense, isn't safe in the least. all they pound into our brains here is CLS and IED stuff. nothing about react to contact and such...

    That's just my $.02 on it as an infantryman straight outta basic.
    Are you a late-deployer on Rear-D? If so, that would explain the M-16A2, the complete lack of team/squad/platoon level training during the duty day, and the lack of discipline as far as your leadership telling you to put the weapons away dirty.

    If you are a late-deployer, once you get in country and get to your Company, you should get a different weapon. You will also hopefully get squared away really quick by your platoon. Rear-Ds have a habit of being full of shitbags and turd-burglars.

  7. #47
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    My 1st deployment was like that. I was 5 weeks out of AIT, and got sent to my unit in Germany only to find it was rear-D, and I was leaving ASAP to Baghdad.



    1 week later after flying out I was on convoys in Baghdad with an A2 I hadnt even shot yet, had to borrow plates from other people because I didn't have any (actually I was issued an old PASGT vest to deploy with), and no idea what to do if we got hit. I was commo so my AIT was all technical BS, and never fired a weapon the entire 3 months. Back then no one had armored vehicles either, and we used to ride like 8-10 deep in the back of a troop transports with weapons pointed out the sides and rear. No one really had a plan on what to do if we were ambushed, IED strike, etc. I've also spent many many many hours riding around in trucks in the city without a clue as to where we were because the dumb ass butter bars can't read a map. Our signal BN actually averaged more convoys than combat arms units because we had people all over the place that needed support, constantly had to adjust where our equipment was as units moved around, mail runs, RR, and our BN CMDR was a medal hunter who kept his own QRF that he took out trying to get into firefights by driving through the worst areas he could on purpose.



    If you are actually deploying with that A2 you can get a gooseneck mount so you can at least put an RDS on it. Not ideal but its better than nothing.


    I'd also recommend stocking up on some cleaning supplies because theres no telling what you are going to be able to get over there. Some quality lube like Slip EWL, you got some PMAG's, get a decent sling (VCAS or VTAC), some brushes, etc. Keep your shit clean when you can. The compressed air for cleaning electronics works good to get sand and dust out. Keep it wet....

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    ... Our signal BN actually averaged more convoys than combat arms units because we had people all over the place that needed support, ....
    I am always grateful for support units doing the most they can to do their part. combat arms can't do their job without you. So thank you for your efforts. But the reason you did more convoys than combat arms is because convoys aren't the mission of combat arms. The Infantry guys were out doing nighttime raids on HVIs, conducting SKTs for days at a time, doing knock and searches, and searching for caches in palm groves.


    As for the original topic:
    - I preferred to keep my M4 well lubed, but far from dripping. After fully cleaning the weapon, I would put dabs of CLP on the bolt, bolt carrier, inside the upper receiver, and quite a bit on the buffer and buffer spring. Then using my fingers, I would rub the CLP all over the parts, applying a nice even coat all over the parts. The reason why I put a lot on the spring is simply because I hate the sound of a dry spring when charging the weapon.

    -Despite quite a bit of gun rag/internet accusations to the contrary, the M4 is very reliable, even when a little dirty.

    -One of my duties has been Company armorer, which I had for 2.5 years. During that time I saw two problems the most.
    ---The most prevalent issue was failure to feed. And the most common reason for that was standard issue mags. Since switching to PMAGs, I personally haven't had a single failure to feed, even with blanks.
    ---The second most common problem I encountered was failure to extract caused by worn extractors. A couple times it was a loose gas key, but 99% it was the extractor. Extractors are cheap, and your armorers should have a rather large bench-stock of them. Make sure you keep an eye on yours. And for civvies, keep a few extra hanging around.

    -While most units try to put as big optics as they can on M240Bs, I preferred just an M68 on mine in the gun truck. It worked like a freakin' charm for the engagements in Iraq. This is probably different for the folks in Afghan of course.

    That's all I have for now.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PappyM3 View Post
    I am always grateful for support units doing the most they can to do their part. combat arms can't do their job without you. So thank you for your efforts. But the reason you did more convoys than combat arms is because convoys aren't the mission of combat arms. The Infantry guys were out doing nighttime raids on HVIs, conducting SKTs for days at a time, doing knock and searches, and searching for caches in palm groves.


    As for the original topic:
    - I preferred to keep my M4 well lubed, but far from dripping. After fully cleaning the weapon, I would put dabs of CLP on the bolt, bolt carrier, inside the upper receiver, and quite a bit on the buffer and buffer spring. Then using my fingers, I would rub the CLP all over the parts, applying a nice even coat all over the parts. The reason why I put a lot on the spring is simply because I hate the sound of a dry spring when charging the weapon.

    -Despite quite a bit of gun rag/internet accusations to the contrary, the M4 is very reliable, even when a little dirty.

    -One of my duties has been Company armorer, which I had for 2.5 years. During that time I saw two problems the most.
    ---The most prevalent issue was failure to feed. And the most common reason for that was standard issue mags. Since switching to PMAGs, I personally haven't had a single failure to feed, even with blanks.
    ---The second most common problem I encountered was failure to extract caused by worn extractors. A couple times it was a loose gas key, but 99% it was the extractor. Extractors are cheap, and your armorers should have a rather large bench-stock of them. Make sure you keep an eye on yours. And for civvies, keep a few extra hanging around.

    -While most units try to put as big optics as they can on M240Bs, I preferred just an M68 on mine in the gun truck. It worked like a freakin' charm for the engagements in Iraq. This is probably different for the folks in Afghan of course.

    That's all I have for now.


    Unless you guys are walking on foot out the ECP's you are convoying somewhere. I worked in the division command group for a few months actually. We were their commo support, did their VTC setups, etc. They keep track of every convoy that leaves be it us going out to change personnel or you guys going out to dismount somewhere and search a palm grove. Our division cmdr actually had to have a talk with our BN cmdr about how much we were going out as it wasn't our job to have a QRF but we had one anyways. In this type of war combat arms doesn't always have the monopoly on being outside the wire, and many combat support units are doing their fair share of being out there. My 2nd deployment I was actually out there with our brigade recon team doing EOD escort missions, and my company took over a security job from a combat arms unit since our signal mission is no longer there. Our equipment was parked in a motor pool at liberty, and we did other things like filling in spots in other units.




    The main failures I saw were lack of lube, cleaning, and bad mags. People would let their guns get filthy with the dust build up, and then keep them dry so the sand wouldnt stick. Recipe for failure...


    Maybe as an armorer you can elaborate but I was never aware of any maintenance at the company level in regards to a firing schedule. I never saw a recoil/action spring, gas rings, etc replaced.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    Unless you guys are walking on foot out the ECP's you are convoying somewhere. ....

    Maybe as an armorer you can elaborate but I was never aware of any maintenance at the company level in regards to a firing schedule. I never saw a recoil/action spring, gas rings, etc replaced.
    Well, a convoy is a different animal than a patrol. Just because it involves vehicles doesn't make it a convoy. If we were in Humvees or Brads, it was a mounted patrol. Convoy is a group of vehicles who's purpose is to move from one FOB/COP to another. Oh well, we're just arguing semantics there.

    And combat arms doesn't have the monopoly on being outside the wire. But I'm pretty sure they did have the monopoly on things like conducting nighttime raids on HVTs using air assaults for insertion. I'm not trying to belittle your involvement. Everybody did their necessary piece of the pie. And support units were definitely the targets of many IEDs when they were out on the roads. I'm just trying to emphasize that being outside the wire, pulling security for other elements, conducting presence patrols, and things like that are not equivalent to doing a combat arms mission. Hell, I'm not even doing a combat arms mission this time around.

    About the small arms repair stuff, I can shed some light. There is only a very small amount of repair that is technically allowed at Company level. A Company armorer is allowed a certain amount of bench-stock to complete repairs they're authorized. If my memory serves me, the extractor was one of them. It should be since removing the extractor is at the operator level. Gas rings were definitely not Company level, though I did do them. Anything else not at the Company level needs to go to the Battalion small arms repairers. Unfortunately, that involves quite a bit of bureaucratic mess and trying to go through the PLL office(::shudder:. And sadly, I'd have to show the Joes at the shop how to do some things even though it was their MOS. Luckily, I was able to order quite a bit of Class 9 repair parts that weren't technically part of my authorized bench-stock. I didn't do things like swap barrels, replace bolts, or replace lower receiver parts, but for many easy fixes I was able to get a soldiers weapon back to them right away as opposed to the weapon being deadlined for 2 weeks or so. Actually I take that back; I have replaced lower receiver parts. One of our SDMs had the lower receiver slightly crushed in a Bradley ramp and I had the choice to code out the SDM rifle or one of our spare, regular, M16A4s that were laying around. I knew we wouldn't get another SDM from AMU until at least the end of the deployment, so I put the regular M16A4's lower receiver on the SDM's upper and then swapped trigger assemblies. I was in the wrong according to the Army, but it helped maintain unit readiness so I didn't really care.

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