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Thread: Interesting perspective on M855A1 by retired SF

  1. #31
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    Is there a generally accepted fragmentation threshold for M855A1 (like how 2700 FPS is for both M193 and M855)? I'm having a hard time finding something concrete.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistoGators View Post
    Is there a generally accepted fragmentation threshold for M855A1 (like how 2700 FPS is for both M193 and M855)? I'm having a hard time finding something concrete.
    Forward Ascertainment Group

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post

    Also the A1 ammo was an ass ache cuz the couldn't train with it in the shoot house or on the long range steel. It did enough damage that they had to go back to M855 to train with.
    The fact it was too hard on targets but m855 was not indicated a real performance improvement in barrier penetration, to me at least.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer_Man View Post
    Retired Green Beret Jeff Gurwitch gives a brief technical and historical overview of the M855A1 cartridge, and his take on its’ performance compared to M855 green tip. It’s a half hour video, but I found it pretty interesting.

    Not gonna watch the video. I was part of the reliability testing, magazine testing, and PIP.

    I will never fire 855A1 out of any of my weapons no matter the enhanced geometry of the followers. I won’t comment on anything else because I not sure what’s part of the NDA.
    Last edited by davidjinks; 08-17-22 at 10:44. Reason: Spelling

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    Wasn't a company called Liberty Ammunition (or similar) involved with a lawsuit against DoD for infringing on it's design of M855A1? Or is it another round I'm thinking of?
    I've heard similar but I am not aware of any specifics. If it was simply a case of the DoD infringing on patents, I'm sure a deal could have been worked out that would have let the Civ company produce and sell the round (or at least the bullet) commercially, using the "XM855A1" designation. I tend to wonder if the round has been labeled as "armor-piercing" and thus shelved like the ATF/DOJ has tried to do to regular old green-tip multiple times over the years. Pure speculation, but it would fit.
    It's f*****g great, putting holes in people, all the time, and it just puts 'em down mate, they drop like sacks of s**t when they go down with this.
    --British veteran of the Ukraine War, discussing the FN SCAR H.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidjinks View Post
    Not gonna watch the video. I was part of the reliability testing, magazine testing, and PIP.

    I will never fire 855A1 out of any of my weapons no matter the enhanced geometry of the followers. I won’t comment on anything else because I not sure what’s part of the NDA.
    Didn't they drop the pressure a bit after that initial testing, though?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    Didn't they drop the pressure a bit after that initial testing, though?
    That is open source information and yes they did. The original pressures were destroying barrels within 5k-8k rounds. There’s were several issues were the A2 birdcage was being torn apart.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-17 View Post
    I've heard similar but I am not aware of any specifics. If it was simply a case of the DoD infringing on patents, I'm sure a deal could have been worked out that would have let the Civ company produce and sell the round (or at least the bullet) commercially, using the "XM855A1" designation. I tend to wonder if the round has been labeled as "armor-piercing" and thus shelved like the ATF/DOJ has tried to do to regular old green-tip multiple times over the years. Pure speculation, but it would fit.
    It's in no way armor piercing according to the law, but they're nevertheless using the patent to do everything in their power to keep us (the people's whose money was used to develop and manufacture it, and who are constitutionally guaranteed the right to have the arms of our military) from being able to buy it.

    It's basically in the same category as 5.7 black tip. 100% legal to own, but being internally controlled by the manufacturer. You can get it through backdoor channels, but it's extremely expensive.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    It's in no way armor piercing according to the law, but they're nevertheless using the patent to do everything in their power to keep us (the people's whose money was used to develop and manufacture it, and who are constitutionally guaranteed the right to have the arms of our military) from being able to buy it.

    It's basically in the same category as 5.7 black tip. 100% legal to own, but being internally controlled by the manufacturer. You can get it through backdoor channels, but it's extremely expensive.
    Directly from the DOD, I had to meet with the lead security specialist, there has been no official sale/ release of the new EPR rounds in either 5.56mm or 7.62mm. The rounds/projectiles that are being sold on the market have either been stolen or contracts have been breached in regards to certain entities buying it for official use and turning around and selling it.

  10. #40
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    Appreciate Feedback and comments
    Molon posts are the same one he posted to arfcom and really only support my argument that M855A1 is not "match like"
    Like the Army claims. Which was the point of the video dispelling Army claims about M855A1.
    Sure Im bias towards MK262, Il take better accuracy any day when it comes to fighting rifle ammo.

    Again, appreciate comments and the interest in the video

    Jeff G.

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