Interesting perspective on M855A1 by retired SF

[Molon]

They lost that case.

No, they didn't loose the case that I referrenced. They won that case and the court awarded Liberty Ammunition a huge settlement. After that, the federal government went judge-shopping in appellate court to get the ruling overturned.


"The court awards Liberty $15,617,533.68 in damages, as of April 30, 2013. Liberty is entitled to interest for delayed compensation at the 5-year Treasury note rate from July 6, 2010, compounded semi-annually, until the date the judgment is actually paid.54

Within 90 days of the close of each of the government’s fiscal years after April 30, 2013, the government shall provide a royalty report to Liberty accounting for the number of infringing rounds ordered and delivered, and 30 days thereafter shall make a royalty payment to Liberty for those rounds at a rate of $0,014 per round."

....

[Molon]

MIL-DTL-32338A with Amendment 2, dated 23 April 2014, changed that.

The requirement was changed to: the average standard deviation, both horizontal and vertical shall not be greater than 6.3 inches at 600 yards but kept the 1.8 at 200 yards requirement.

With Amendment 4, dated 19 June 2015, the 200 yard figure was reduced to 1.6 inches.

So, currently the requirements are that the horizontal and vertical standard deviation:

600 yds = 6.3 inches
200 yds = 1.6 inches

Now go back to the first post of this thread and actually try watching the video to see the mil-spec version that he was referring to and hence my post stating "the mil-spec referrenced."




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[lysander]

Now go back to the first post of this thread and actually try watching the video to see the mil-spec version that he was referring to and hence my post stating "the mil-spec referrenced."




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Just keeping everybody up to date, no need to get excited . . .

The current requirement is tighter than that referenced.

[lysander]

No, they didn't loose the case that I referrenced. They won that case and the court awarded Liberty Ammunition a huge settlement. After that, the federal government went judge-shopping in appellate court to get the ruling overturned.


"The court awards Liberty $15,617,533.68 in damages, as of April 30, 2013. Liberty is entitled to interest for delayed compensation at the 5-year Treasury note rate from July 6, 2010, compounded semi-annually, until the date the judgment is actually paid.54

Within 90 days of the close of each of the government’s fiscal years after April 30, 2013, the government shall provide a royalty report to Liberty accounting for the number of infringing rounds ordered and delivered, and 30 days thereafter shall make a royalty payment to Liberty for those rounds at a rate of $0,014 per round."

....

The US Government appealed the case and on 26 August 2016 the US Federal Circuit Court of Appeals overturned the decision. A case is not "won" or "lost" until all the appeals are filed and decided. This means they lost the case, and the Government does not have to pay anything.

Lawyer: Liberty Ammunition still has options after losing patent appeal against federal government

Army Ammunition Goes Green and Infringement Free

Liberty Ammunition, Inc. v. United States, appellant court opinion/

"The United States appeals the decision of the Court of Federal Claims that ammunition rounds used by the United States Army embody the claims of Liberty Ammunition, Inc.'s U.S. Patent No. 7,748,325 without authorization, violating 28 U.S.C. § 1498. The Government argues that the trial court erred in construing several claim terms and that, when these terms are construed correctly, the Army rounds do not embody the claimed invention. We agree with the Government that the trial court erred in two of its claim constructions because those constructions are unsupported by the intrinsic record. Because Liberty cannot prevail under the proper claim constructions, we reverse the decision of the trial court and hold that the Government does not practice the asserted claims of Liberty's patent in violation of § 1498. . . .

"For the foregoing reasons, we hold that the trial court erred when construing the “intermediate opposite ends” and “reduced area of conduct” claim terms and reverse its holding that the Government practiced the asserted claims of the '325 patent and vacate its award of damages. We affirm the trial court's holding that Liberty cannot prevail on its breach of contract claim because the trial court's determination that Lt. Col. Dean lacked the requisite authority to enter an NDA on the Government's behalf is not clearly erroneous."

Judge Newman in her opinion wrote:

"The Court of Federal Claims held the '325 patent valid, and infringed by the A1 modifications of the M855 and M80 projectiles. My colleagues hold that the patent is not infringed. I agree that the patent is not infringed by these A1 projectiles, for it was undisputed that the entire base of the A1 projectile is enclosed or “jacketed,” unlike the claimed '325 projectile. The '325 claims require that the metal interface does not enclose the base of the projectile. Thus I join the court's ruling of non-infringement."

AS TO THIS:

After that, the federal government went judge-shopping in appellate court to get the ruling overturned.

That would be quite impossible as this was a patent case and heard before US Court of Federal Claims, as such the only appeals courts available to this court is the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit. Any appeal about a patent case comes before this body. And, once the appeal has been accepted by the Court Clerk's Office, the case is assigned randomly to a three judge panel. And the three judge panels are made up by random.

[1168]

I do remember there being a lot of hoopla, and I kinda thought the suit was going to kill the A1 project, which was fine by me at the time because I thought I was going to hate it. It wouldn’t be the first time the Army has “borrowed” IP. What I’m curious about is that if Liberty had something similar enough to file suit over, where’s it at today? Does anyone here know anything about the Liberty projectile?

[lysander]

I do remember there being a lot of hoopla, and I kinda thought the suit was going to kill the A1 project, which was fine by me at the time because I thought I was going to hate it. It wouldn’t be the first time the Army has “borrowed” IP. What I’m curious about is that if Liberty had something similar enough to file suit over, where’s it at today? Does anyone here know anything about the Liberty projectile?

Just what is in the patent. And to be honest, I would not use such a bullet.

[sinister]

This is interesting, and the first time I've seen the patent drawing. I can see why the judges and panel would reject Liberty's claim.

M855A1, without a lead slug, seems more like a two-piece version of Remington's Bronze Point bullet -- with a drawn-from-the-base copper body for nominally better base/boat-tail consistency for precision.

The Army's first attempt was more three-part Bronze Point than the final adopted M855A1. First version:



As adopted (M855 Green Tip left, M855A1 right):

[vicious_cb]

This is interesting, and the first time I've seen the patent drawing. I can see why the judges and panel would reject Liberty's claim.

M855A1, without a lead slug, seems more like a two-piece version of Remington's Bronze Point bullet -- with a drawn-from-the-base copper body for nominally better base/boat-tail consistency for precision.

The Army's first attempt was more three-part Bronze Point than the final adopted M855A1. First version:

Hmm, I dont think they are of a common linage. Those bronze points serve as a ballistic tip instead of a penetrator. Not to mention there is some advanced fluid dynamics going on with the A1 design to give it the terminal ballistics it has.

[sinister]

True, but incidental. The impetus for developing M855A1 wasn't lethality or efficiency. The official reason was driven by Massachusetts banning lead in small arms ammunition fired on federal and state ranges (Fort Devens, Westover AB, Hanscom AB, Camp Edwards).

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

Mass is a Cuck state, it’s sad how it was a place where the revolution was born and now it’s just white trash from boston and liberals