Solar Talk 🌞

[WillBrink]

You do understand that “you” are a big part of the price increase, right?

I’m not blaming you for making a financially advantageous decision, but subsidies are always bad for price and availability of a product.

I don't follow you. The price increase happened first and prices for the systems didn't change far as I know as I have been tracking them for some time now. They have steadily been dropping as the prices of solar panels have been dropping sharply. No doubt, rebates fed or state has to have some impact in that chain, but far as I know, it's not part of the recent rate increases in electric in FL, which so far, looks like a straight $ grab as they were highly profitable before rate increases:

https://opportunityforallfloridians....ridas-history/

[Det-Sog]

Still not cost effective for us. My wife is a finance expert and has done "c-level" consulting for the energy industry.

Simply put, even though we live in sunny Arizona it would take 12-18 years to recoup the initial investment of a solar panel installation if we paid CASH. 15-20 years with solar plus a RELIABLE battery back-up. If we financed with interest payments, it is a WASH.

The only way it might make sense to us would be if the BHO 30% subsidy came back. Having to pay full price with a joke of a tax "credit" is laughable. What makes it more laughable, is where the solar panels are made. Call me when I can bury a small reactor in the back yard.

[WillBrink]

Still not cost effective for us. My wife is a finance expert and has done "c-level" consulting for the energy industry.

Simply put, even though we live in sunny Arizona it would take 12-18 years to recoup the initial investment of a solar panel installation if we paid CASH. 15-20 years with solar plus a RELIABLE battery back-up. If we financed with interest payments, it is a WASH.

The only way it might make sense to us would be if the BHO 30% subsidy came back. Having to pay full price with a joke of a tax "credit" is laughable. What makes it more laughable, is where the solar panels are made. Call me when I can bury a small reactor in the back yard.

Before the recent price hikes in FL, was about a wash. With new prices, it favors the solar, also allows one more option to not be totally dependent on the grid, they have to pay you for excess power, and the loan rate is under 1%, and it increases the value of the house.

I had solar on my house in the NE, and it was a slight savings $ wise, of course mostly due the fact we didn't get a of sun. F that noise.

[Det-Sog]

For now, the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station in AZ keeps our rates reasonable. The greenies are trying to kill it, but as long as it's running solar will have a hard time competing on a cost basis. Now, when we get a (D) governor this fall all bets are off.

If energy prices go way up and/or large subsidies come back, we will re-evaluate. For "now" it's not worth it.

When we retire out in the country in anther 5-10 years, we will have double if not triple energy redundancy.

[WillBrink]

For now, the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station in AZ keeps our rates reasonable. The greenies are trying to kill it, but as long as it's running solar will have a hard time competing on a cost basis. Now, when we get a (D) governor this fall all bets are off.

If energy prices go way up and/or large subsidies come back, we will re-evaluate. For "now" it's not worth it.

When we retire out in the country in anther 5-10 years, we will have double if not triple energy redundancy.

With the solar, I will be there.

[Ready.Fire.Aim]

Just curious WillBrink, did you calculate the financial savings including “time value of money” ( net present value)?

I realize solar & battery backup has intrinsic value but the costs never work out for me in sunny Texas.
I’m on a rural coop and currently pay 11 cents a kilowatt.
To have enough kWh capacity in a blackout requires a lot of battery capacity $$$.

I went with a 22KW propane fueled generator & 1000 gallon tank in 2010.
My planning was for extended 2-3 power outage due to hurricane damage to the grid, I’m 15 miles from the coast.
My assumption was propane tank refill in week 3.
Solar just wasn’t going to be effective to maintain HVAC, freezers, etc.

FWIW we ran on our own power for 5 days in Feb 2021 winter storm. Ice & snow accumulations completely disabled solar and wind in Tx.

[Todd.K]

You are being paid above market rate for intermittent power generation, like all “renewables”.

The only two possible outcomes are:
1) Underfunding reliable base power generation plants. This leads to extremely high prices when your grid has to buy power from another source.
2) Funding reliable base power generation plants that are intermittently used as backup. The entire cost of the plant has to be recouped, so it increases the cost of the power when it does produce.

[WillBrink]

Just curious WillBrink, did you calculate the financial savings including “time value of money” ( net present value)?

I realize solar & battery backup has intrinsic value but the costs never work out for me in sunny Texas.
I’m on a rural coop and currently pay 11 cents a kilowatt.
To have enough kWh capacity in a blackout requires a lot of battery capacity $$$.

I went with a 22KW propane fueled generator & 1000 gallon tank in 2010.
My planning was for extended 2-3 power outage due to hurricane damage to the grid, I’m 15 miles from the coast.
My assumption was propane tank refill in week 3.
Solar just wasn’t going to be effective to maintain HVAC, freezers, etc.

FWIW we ran on our own power for 5 days in Feb 2021 winter storm. Ice & snow accumulations completely disabled solar and wind in Tx.

I mostly looked at my bill dropping approx 50% on average, that I had yet another off the grid source, and other metrics mentioned in the thread. I'm now paying $29 per 1,000 kWh with rate increase.

[GH41]

IMO, No such thing as a free lunch! I cannot make the solar numbers work for me. Battery cost is the killer and they don't last forever.

[hotbiggun42]

Why not just use portable power stations with portable solar pannels?