Which would you choose given the parameters.....

[Disciple]

For rural use I switch to my 6,5 Grendel with an 18 inch barrel, and this will take me way out in distance.

What is your choice of ammunition?

[okie]

I shoot 24" gongs gongs at 300 with irons; 30 of 30....I'm a fat mechanic.

I feel like sometimes we really go overboard with this stuff..

If you're shooting at night the game changes. I've shot to 600(meters) with 10X on a 12" plate in pitch black with NV. I'm am hilariously far from a pro.

Here's my answer...If you have an AR that's properly sighted, you're GTG.

The majority of scopes on the market are ridiculous. The status quo for the commercial market is to severely handicap the shooter with way too much magnification and an absurdly complicated reticle.

[vicious_cb]

I am going to offer a different perspective. With pistols, due to the range of engagement and the lack of "power" in a pistol, I try to find the best round. As everyone knows I think it is the Leighi Defense 68 grain in 357sig or 9mm.

But when it comes to general use rifle, I don't have the same concerns. The power of the rifle and ability to put more shots on target rapidly if it is at close distance, I don't worry about it. As the distance gets bigger I worry even less, within reason.

For urban use my rifle is a 5.56 11.5 inch AR loaded with ball.

For rural use I switch to my 6,5 Grendel with an 18 inch barrel, and this will take me way out in distance.

The issue main issue with Ball ammo in urban use is windshields. Do you really want to try and put 4-5 shots into the same spot before you start getting good effects on target? What if the vehicle is moving?

[ABNAK]

I actually have LE223T3 loaded in my HD mags, which I think shares the FBIT3 negatives, and a pretty decent stock of IMI 77 gr OTM. The 75 gr Gold Dot is bonded soft point, right? Just better.

My thought was that including A1 and MK318 made the question more theoretical than "I have these types of ammo on hand".

Andy

It's not theoretical. They were put out there as choices because, well, at least for me they are actually a choice (not an unlimited one mind you).

[okie]

It's not theoretical. They were put out there as choices because, well, at least for me they are actually a choice (not an unlimited one mind you).

Since your question was specifically about long range shots, limited ammo is as good as unavailable ammo. You need to practice with the ammo you plan on using at those longer ranges so you instinctually know where your holds are. A1 for example is going to be like a foot higher than something else you might practice with. Like I said before, the small gains in accuracy you'll get from using expensive ammo aren't worth the loss in consistency from training to real world use. Like if you ever had to grab it for real and had the A1 loaded after doing most of your practicing with M855 you would at best be taking too long and having to do too much conscious thinking to compensate. Like you would constantly have to be reminding yourself to use a hold you rarely used, vs. the one you used on a regular basis, and you would constantly be having to remind yourself which stadia to use. Or more likely you would just revert to using the ones you had practiced with and have all your shots go over their head. That's the major downside of any shooting past 200 meters. You have to train with the ammo you would actually use, or at least something so close that it has almost exactly the same trajectory.

[yoni]

What is your choice of ammunition?

Hornady 123grn Black match my rifle loves it, and other than that I bought a bunch of Wolf which my gun also does very well with

[yoni]

The issue main issue with Ball ammo in urban use is windshields. Do you really want to try and put 4-5 shots into the same spot before you start getting good effects on target? What if the vehicle is moving?

Today as a civilian I don't see me having to shoot into windshields with my rifle. If this changes, then I would leave the 5.56 rifles in the safe and haul out my PTR 32 which I am sure will go through windshields better than the 5.56

[BobinNC]

Since your question was specifically about long range shots, limited ammo is as good as unavailable ammo. You need to practice with the ammo you plan on using at those longer ranges so you instinctually know where your holds are. A1 for example is going to be like a foot higher than something else you might practice with. Like I said before, the small gains in accuracy you'll get from using expensive ammo aren't worth the loss in consistency from training to real world use. Like if you ever had to grab it for real and had the A1 loaded after doing most of your practicing with M855 you would at best be taking too long and having to do too much conscious thinking to compensate. Like you would constantly have to be reminding yourself to use a hold you rarely used, vs. the one you used on a regular basis, and you would constantly be having to remind yourself which stadia to use. Or more likely you would just revert to using the ones you had practiced with and have all your shots go over their head. That's the major downside of any shooting past 200 meters. You have to train with the ammo you would actually use, or at least something so close that it has almost exactly the same trajectory.

Excellent points. I'm a reloader, meaning I'm cheap but also like accuracy. Without getting to far off topic, I designed my reloads to match my designated factory load. That way I practice with what I'll also fight with.

The load I chose is not barrier blind, nor does it fly and hit the hardest at 700 yds, but it's fragmentation is impressive, though just short of the magical FBI minimum. The load I chose was the Hornady 5.56 NATO 68 gr BTHP Match Frontier (Item #FR310).

I reload that round to near the same velocities with Hornady's 2278C bullet, 24.4 grains of Reloader 12, LC or Starline 5.56mm Brass, CCI 450 primer. I bought many lbs of RL12 before it was discontinued. I'm now down to my last 2 lbs of RL12, and I am working with TAC to develop a similar clone for the Hornady's FR310 factory round.

This is the only way I can both load deep enough in factory rounds for me to afford, and to practice with using comparatively cheap reloads. I would not be afraid to defend myself with those reloads either. I think they are very good.

Why did I choose the 68 grain Hornady instead of a 75 or 77 grainer like the SMK or CC?? Well the 68 was both cheaper and yielded more velocity.

My initial thought was to keep velocities up, for fragmentation at a greater distance than afforded by the 75 or 77 grain bullets, and I was optimizing a 500 yd max round, for my 16" barreled, 1x6 LVPOed, AR15.

Any way sorry to get so far off topic. Best of luck.

[C-grunt]

My choice would probably be M262 because of availability. The other rounds are great too but much harder to find and probably more expensive.

I agree with Yoni and not worrying much about ammo in my defensive rifles. I have a couple magazines loaded up with Federal TRU 223E (55 grain Gameking) because I've used it as a duty round for nearly 15 years. It shoots pretty much identically with Federal 55 grain ball out to at least 200 yards.

If i run through a few mags of that ammo, I'm running 55 grain ball after that. And I have no qualms with that.

[ABNAK]

Since your question was specifically about long range shots, limited ammo is as good as unavailable ammo. You need to practice with the ammo you plan on using at those longer ranges so you instinctually know where your holds are. A1 for example is going to be like a foot higher than something else you might practice with. Like I said before, the small gains in accuracy you'll get from using expensive ammo aren't worth the loss in consistency from training to real world use. Like if you ever had to grab it for real and had the A1 loaded after doing most of your practicing with M855 you would at best be taking too long and having to do too much conscious thinking to compensate. Like you would constantly have to be reminding yourself to use a hold you rarely used, vs. the one you used on a regular basis, and you would constantly be having to remind yourself which stadia to use. Or more likely you would just revert to using the ones you had practiced with and have all your shots go over their head. That's the major downside of any shooting past 200 meters. You have to train with the ammo you would actually use, or at least something so close that it has almost exactly the same trajectory.

All true points, but currently my AR's are zeroed for Mk318, and I have about 1K "on ice" for a rainy day and a couple hundred more for zeroing any new weapons I might acquire (although I'm pretty "gunned out" and don't see it happening). If I ran out of Mk318 then obviously I'd need to re-zero for the M855A1, Mk262, or the FBI load. I assume that as a given. I would also say that I don't foresee the need for anything beyond 300m (if that). Even then we are talking a near-total breakdown of society; anything shy of that situation is gonna have some serious legal eyebrows raised. That said, I'd like to be prepared for a worst-case scenario and that would include = to or <300m shots.

Hell, I have quite a bit more of plain old M855, but I tend to use that as practice fodder and a way to get on paper for zeroing the good stuff.....then fine-tune the zero with whatever round I intend to use.

YMMV



EDIT: I am not looking to shoot a gnat's nuts off at 800m. I've never been that good a shot, and aging eyes have certainly not made an improvement there! Minute-of-man is my goal.