Walther and HK…

[HKGuns]

HK literally has one of the worst triggers both out of the box and modified out there. Here's a list of handguns I own or owned that are better than any HK trigger I've felt to date



-Walther PPQ with Apex trigger shoe

-Sig Sauer P220 with Gray Guns trigger job

-Sig Sauer German made P228 *factory*

-CZ P01 with full CGW trigger job

-CZ P10c with HB industries flat trigger

-Glock Gen 4 19 with my own trigger job

-S&W 629 Performance Center ported

-Ruger GP100 with my own trigger job

-Sig Sauer P320 with Armory Craft dual adjustable trigger and Gray Guns spring and sear kit

-Sig Sauer P365 with my own trigger job



And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few but this is off the top of my head. I'm a trigger snob and you are either in denial or delusional if you think handgun triggers can't be nice.

I own most of the pistols on your list and your trigger job don’t count.

Nice try.

[Stopsign32v]

So… Is there a pistol that is as durable, reliable… bulletproof as the HK out of the box that doesn’t have a crappy stock trigger? I hit what I’m aiming at with my HKs and I do it well… I do have to work extra hard to accomplish the task. I do NOT carry a pistol that has been modified in anyway… box stock period. Lawyers and such. I can hear it now… “ Your honor… he was packing a G26 with a bumpstock and a shoulder thingy that goes up with 1oz trigger and laser beam boolits “! OMG… the horror… to the gallows with thee!
Just curious to hear others perspective and points of view.

Also it can go both ways. A defense attorney could argue that you modify your firearm to increase the safety of others. I don't know of a Glock bumpstock or a shoulder thingy but can anyone come up with a trial to where a person rightfully defended themselves but were put in jail because the prosecutor said "AH! Look here...Mr Smith polished the tip of the 45* angle within his sear housing to make the trigger pull lighter! CLEARLY he is a person bent on murder!"

At the end of the day you are either right or wrong when you pull a firearm and use it. No light attachment, aftermarket sights, or a nifty bright blue trigger shoe will change that.

[Stopsign32v]

I own most of the pistols on your list and your trigger job don’t count.

Nice try.

Sure they do. On the flip side I have a USP in my hand right now with a HK match trigger kit installed and it's still WORSE than my out of the box stock 1995 Sig P228.

[rlewpolar]

MY HK USPs have always been a bit of a mystery to me. When dry firing, especially in DA mode, they feel rough, especially when new. And yet, I am supremely accurate with them. Even more so than my P series Sigs or Glocks which have far better feeling triggers. As many others have noted, USPs eventually do improve with dry or live-firing but even when rough and new, those triggers manage to allow me to hit very accurately where I’m aiming. And at the end of the day, isn’t that what it’s all about?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Stopsign32v]

All of my USP's are also very accurate. Above most pistols IMO

[m4brian]

Back to the OP - apples and oranges between the P2000 and the PDP. The PDPs I've seen have phenom triggers IF you like a VERY lightweight precocked SF gun.

DA/SA is a whole nutta ballgame.

I've found P2000s to be pretty decent out of the box.

HKs are bombproof and their mags are made better than all other firearms. I think they get a bad rap on triggers, but there are reasons. Again, I've been tempted to pick up the P2000 before and those I've handled had a consistent and smooth DA and a decently light SA with only a tad of creep.

I have worked on 2 P30s - Safety model. Getting them DECENT is easier than CZs. Can they GET to the point where they are as good as a Cajunized CZ? No way. BUT, with the change of two springs and a polish job, the DA is smooth and bears only a little stacking at the very rear which is easy to blow through in DA, and the SA has minimal creep and light break. They DO have a longer SA throw than a REGULAR P01, and similar to the Omega - maybe a tad more. Fore some people this is a deal.

In GENERAL - I have found in my limited experience that getting a P30 to have a smooth DA is easier to do than getting that in a CZ in general. The problem with CZs is the inconsistency. One CZ can have a nearly perfect pull OTB, and with swapping to CGW parts, (sometimes $300+) will be an AMAZING trigger - and you can do it yourself.

But, some CZs are MISERABLE. I've spent a ton of hours on a P01 Omega and FINALLY have it right now, and even with a few hundred in CGW parts still has a tiny bit of stacking at the rear before the DA break. Only through a ton of experimentation and polishing is it now silky smooth through the pull, and even the CGW hammer ($88) has a tiny creep before the SA break. As one smith at CGW says, some CZs you can never get completely right. Its the way it is.

I even have a 'regular' P01 with all CGW parts - it is a nice gun and the SA break is like a custom 1911. However, the DA still stacks a bit - but because the DA pull is short and sweet otherwise, you can hit with it. But most would not like the stacking. When I purchased the gun online it was ATROCIOUS - and many DA/SA CZs are. (The problem with CZs is that they are scarce and you almost need to buy online sight unseen. Advise - go to a big show and try it and pay more but know what you are getting).

Walthers. I've never picked up a PPQ that did not have a phenom trigger. I've also never had a Malf in a P99 - rock solid. I do not have experience with the PDP.

[SteyrAUG]

HK literally has one of the worst triggers both out of the box and modified out there. Here's a list of handguns I own or owned that are better than any HK trigger I've felt to date



-Walther PPQ with Apex trigger shoe

-Sig Sauer P220 with Gray Guns trigger job

-Sig Sauer German made P228 *factory*

-CZ P01 with full CGW trigger job

-CZ P10c with HB industries flat trigger

-Glock Gen 4 19 with my own trigger job

-S&W 629 Performance Center ported

-Ruger GP100 with my own trigger job

-Sig Sauer P320 with Armory Craft dual adjustable trigger and Gray Guns spring and sear kit

-Sig Sauer P365 with my own trigger job



And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few but this is off the top of my head. I'm a trigger snob and you are either in denial or delusional if you think handgun triggers can't be nice.

You are comparing custom triggers to HK stock triggers?? Several of the guns you listed, with STOCK triggers are atrocious.

[Stopsign32v]

You are comparing custom triggers to HK stock triggers?? Several of the guns you listed, with STOCK triggers are atrocious.

I'm comparing what I have and not just regurgitating what the internet says. Plus the only HK I have left has the "match trigger" so yes it is apples to apples compared to my custom trigger guns.

[pag23]

HK Lite LEM is your friend... all my HKs except one, not counting the striker fired ones (which feel.close to Lite LEM) are set up this way. Its a long take up but a quick reset.....

[TheGhostRider]

Back to the OP - apples and oranges between the P2000 and the PDP. The PDPs I've seen have phenom triggers IF you like a VERY lightweight precocked SF gun.

DA/SA is a whole nutta ballgame.

I've found P2000s to be pretty decent out of the box.

HKs are bombproof and their mags are made better than all other firearms. I think they get a bad rap on triggers, but there are reasons. Again, I've been tempted to pick up the P2000 before and those I've handled had a consistent and smooth DA and a decently light SA with only a tad of creep.

I have worked on 2 P30s - Safety model. Getting them DECENT is easier than CZs. Can they GET to the point where they are as good as a Cajunized CZ? No way. BUT, with the change of two springs and a polish job, the DA is smooth and bears only a little stacking at the very rear which is easy to blow through in DA, and the SA has minimal creep and light break. They DO have a longer SA throw than a REGULAR P01, and similar to the Omega - maybe a tad more. Fore some people this is a deal.

In GENERAL - I have found in my limited experience that getting a P30 to have a smooth DA is easier to do than getting that in a CZ in general. The problem with CZs is the inconsistency. One CZ can have a nearly perfect pull OTB, and with swapping to CGW parts, (sometimes $300+) will be an AMAZING trigger - and you can do it yourself.

But, some CZs are MISERABLE. I've spent a ton of hours on a P01 Omega and FINALLY have it right now, and even with a few hundred in CGW parts still has a tiny bit of stacking at the rear before the DA break. Only through a ton of experimentation and polishing is it now silky smooth through the pull, and even the CGW hammer ($88) has a tiny creep before the SA break. As one smith at CGW says, some CZs you can never get completely right. Its the way it is.

I even have a 'regular' P01 with all CGW parts - it is a nice gun and the SA break is like a custom 1911. However, the DA still stacks a bit - but because the DA pull is short and sweet otherwise, you can hit with it. But most would not like the stacking. When I purchased the gun online it was ATROCIOUS - and many DA/SA CZs are. (The problem with CZs is that they are scarce and you almost need to buy online sight unseen. Advise - go to a big show and try it and pay more but know what you are getting).

Walthers. I've never picked up a PPQ that did not have a phenom trigger. I've also never had a Malf in a P99 - rock solid. I do not have experience with the PDP.

Thank you for actually addressing my questions with logic and your experience.
I’m not dedicated to any brand. I am dedicated to the advancement and maintaining of my skills and don’t give a damn who’s name is on the slide/frame.
I don’t know what I don’t know and you have given me some things to ponder.
In the last four months I’ve expended close to 5k rounds of M882… I can hit what I need to hit with whatever I pick up.
The fact remains… some pistols are easier to hit with than others. My training will go on as it has for the last 40+ years.
Thanks again m4brian for your honest input.