Is my RDS increasing muzzle rise?

[P2Vaircrewman]

Inertia works both ways, if it causes the muzzle to flip up when the slide goes back it causes the muzzle to flip down going forward.

[markm]

The optic weight is not enough to matter, especially when considering material removed.

This, completely. We re-mounted and RDS on a pistol last weekend, and I got to feel the weight of the sight and look at how these things are mounted first hand. Anyhow, the weight it negligible and the "flip" is almost entirely perception. An RDS is a bulky add on that is very visible when the slide reciprocates.

[Ron3]

Just my viewpoint:

Why would you handicap yourself with a DA/SA autoloader, with Bore Axis SO high above web of hand, and exaggerate this deficit further by adding additional mass (Optic) on top of Slide?

Earnest Langdon and (very) few others have mastered this Blowjob handgun system, but it just seems like deliberately handicapping yourself out of the gate. Learning an Optic system on a handgun seems enough of a hurdle to overcome.

Why not a Glock or similar??

Mainly because I'm not willing to carry a striker-fired gun Appendix. I may end up removing the optic but I should spend more time with it first.

[Ron3]

Inertia works both ways, if it causes the muzzle to flip up when the slide goes back it causes the muzzle to flip down going forward.

I hadn't considered that you're right.

[gaijin]

Mainly because I'm not willing to carry a striker-fired gun Appendix. I may end up removing the optic but I should spend more time with it first.

There are other hammer guns with manual safety’s you might consider.

[Ron3]

There are other hammer guns with manual safety’s you might consider.

Oh I try to avoid manual safeties.

My Beretta M92X is decock only. I also have a CZ P01, (decock only), HK P30SK LEM V1, revolvers, and some Beretta Cheetah's. The Cheetahs have manual safeties but I've yet to ever activate one accidentally. (Its left "off") Its 1911-ish so the thumb rides ontop the safety lever.

Probably going to sell the CZ and HK.

If I carried a striker gun it would be an M&P 2.0 and behind the hip.

[Ron3]

I shot the Beretta and S&W 2.0 .45 against the timer recently.

The .45, using factory 230 gr, hits the hand harder, but the muzzle rise seemed pretty similar. I wasn't fatigued or sweating my ass off like the last time I was out with the Beretta, and it was easier keeping it under control this visit. Focusing on proper grip (especially stronger grip with support hand) helps of course.

The timer told me the DA first shot costs an extra .25s or so. I knew that. The optic adds another .25s generally when the presentation on draw is perfect. Otherwise the optic adds .25-1s depending how bad I screw up.

I'm not sure how to fix this. I've been practicing alot at home. Il have a great draw and presentation 5 times, 10 times, even 20 times. And in--between a completely shitty presentation and do the circle-dot hunt for what feels like forever.

That doesn't happen with front sights.

I was also putting 5-10 shots in a one-inch group at 15 yds, and just over two inches at 25 yds. That's pretty damn cool.

Shooting multiple 8 inch targets at 25 yds can be done with the .45 in the same time as the Beretta with dot. But not near as consistently.

But when those "what the F---!?" reticleless draws happen at close range, the most important range, it really sucks! You either do the circle-dot hunt or pull the trigger and hope for the best.

[Ron3]

Well, it's been about a year.

I've learned proficiency with the pistol RDS, although not on my Berettas.

I see what's going on here now. It is partially the 3 oz of optic plate / optic. But that's only part of the problem.

I recently mounted a RDS on Beretta 96A1 for an even flippier gun. It's too much and extremely slow.

Here is the recipe:

1. Light frame
2. High bore axis
3. Add weight to slide (3 oz)
4. Reduce hammer spring, increasing slide rearward velocity
5. Increase recoil spring, which while decreasing rear slide velocity, increases slide forward velocity and therefore muzzle dip.
6. Shoot medium to full- power .40.

Add it up and it's an exaggerated version of an HK .45. Heavy recoil, lots of muzzle rise, followed by a springy muzzle dip and the result is a LONG shot recovery time.

So why do many like the RDS on a Beretta 92? I'm guessing it's because they run mild 9 mm loads coupled with light hammer & recoil springs to increase slide velocity to shorten recoil dwell time.

I'm going to transfer the RDS back to the 92X RDO, use the stock 16 lb hammer spring, stock 14 lb recoil spring, and carry / shoot mild ammo.

[gaijin]

………
Here is the recipe:

1. Light frame
2. High bore axis
3. Add weight to slide (3 oz)
4. Reduce hammer spring, increasing slide rearward velocity
5. Increase recoil spring, which while decreasing rear slide velocity, increases slide forward velocity and therefore muzzle dip.
……….

Precisely this.

Many forget about “slide returning to battery” being part of the Felt Recoil equation.
High line of bore over web of hand and ADDing weight to slide is going to produce more “muzzle hop/muzzle dip”.
You can play with springs; recoil, hammer/mainspring, but it’s a bandaid- like buffer weight/spring “fix” in an overgassed AR.
There are pistols well suited to Optics, and there are pistols that are not.

[Ron3]

I'm going to swap the optic from the 96A1 and put it on the 92X RDO.

I'm going to shoot it, the 96A1, and PX4 .45 together and compare / contrast. Also will time some drills, accuracy test, and decide if the PX4 or 96A1 need a new home.