In 2022 should you move on from Geissele triggers?

[Firefly]

I find it funny that people who hate Mark LaRue are also sporting G triggers, like Bill is a saint. LOL. BTW I own both triggers and think they are both assholes.

If ever I need a quad rail from Hell, I will get a Larue. If I just want something a little slicker than a milspec trigger then I will get a Geissele.

But yeah both, as people, can sit and spin. I have a G rail that is supposed to bend but works okay.

It kinda disgusts me that rails and triggers have basically become Air Jordans for middle aged white guys

[Dutch110]

If ever I need a quad rail from Hell, I will get a Larue. If I just want something a little slicker than a milspec trigger then I will get a Geissele.

But yeah both, as people, can sit and spin. I have a G rail that is supposed to bend but works okay.

It kinda disgusts me that rails and triggers have basically become Air Jordans for middle aged white guys

Cross Machine Tool - CMT - makes some darn nice rails. Stickman turned me onto them when I was looking for a rail for my 13.7 build. And a nice family to do business with too. But yeah, I hear you on rails and triggers. In some circles they have become status symbols.

[4325]

I absolutely love my Geissele triggers and really everything Geissele. I'm a huge trigger snob, so today I'm at work sitting in my 2nd office watching YouTube and I watch a trigger comparison video with data and graphs. Well to my surprise my beloved Geissele triggers didn't come out on top and a lot of trigger companies I've never even heard of are leading it...

So, is Geissele old news and should I move onto dare I say, better triggers?!

Why? To have the new hotness ? Be the cool guy at the range? You love your G triggers so they obviously do what you require out of them

[Joelski]

Old post, but it illustrates why quality always costs a little more. Lots of takeaways in this post, and no, IMO the state of trigger technology hasn't advanced to the point of compelling me to steer away from Geissele triggers. That's like the guy that thinks the latest driver will get him another 50 yards off the tee. It's way more about the shooter; the trigger just happens to be as helpful as it can possibly be, in my (subjective) humble opinion.

PS: I'll take an aerospace alloy over tool steel any day. All tool steel does vs. advanced alloys is chew up tools at a faster rate. It might be harder, but it's not as wear-resistant. That might sound paradoxical, but a blade made of S35VN holds an edge a good bit longer than D2, or a comparable tool steel doing the same work.

Hi Gents,

First, let me in my first post here say thanks for all the positive comments about my triggers. It makes the effort to bring these to market worthwhile when I know that they are doing someone some good.

To follow up on tactical1's post the three parts of my trigger (trigger/hammer/disconnector) are precision investment cast. Here is how the manufacturing process works:

1. Raw castings have the gate ground off
2. Castings are machined on a Mazak or Bridgeport VMC
3. Castings are hand deburred and critical radii put in by hand
4. Castings are 'Superfinished' which is a process used on aircraft transmission gears to polish a metal surface without removing gross metal or heavily rounding corners.
5. Superfinished castings have threaded holes resized to precise dimensions to account for the prevailing torque screws
6. Sear surfaces on all three parts are cut via wire EDM to +/- 0.0005" tol
7. Components are hand deburred again
8. Components are carburized
9. Components are cryogenically treated (deep frozen to <-120F) for wear resistance and stability
10. Holes are honed to +/-.0002"
11. Parts are blued
12. Parts are assembled (adjustment screws installed and prevailing torque checked, hammer trunnion installed)
13. Parts are fit together in a precision jig that simulates a receiver under full spring pressure st that any minute imperfections in the sears can be felt by hand.
14. Sear engagement is preadjusted
15. Trigger timing is checked, reset is checked, safety operation is checked.
16. All three parts are searialized together
17. Triggers are coated with RustVeto preservative
18. I then hand completed Triggers to my wife Amy for wrapping in VCI paper

Why did I choose investment casting? A couple of reasons. MIM can produce closer tolerance parts but the parts are weaker and highly subject to process variables. Tooling cost is very high and min lots were 10,000 parts. I wish I could sell that many! Available materials are also very limited.

Forging can produce a good part but only the hammer and disconnector geometry can be forged, the trigger cannot. Forging also leaves a 'trim flash' and draft around the outside edges of the parts. Since the edges do work this flash would need to be removed (the front outside part of the magwell on a lot of AR lowers has this trim flash). A lot of additional machining would be needed.

Cutting from barstock would add 50% to the cost of the trigger. It will not necessarily make a 'better' part than casting as I have seen my share of defects in wrought material. On the other hand there are more material choices in barstock than MIM (forgings are also made from barstock so there are also more options for forging). This being said I do very limited amounts of barstock select fire triggers for customers in the US SOCOM community....not because they are better per se but they have requirements such that the fixed geometry of my investment castings would need to be changed. In the next 3-4 months you will see the semi-auto version of this trigger commercially available.

With investment castings tooling cost is reasonable, lots sizes are ok at 1000pcs and I can design in all the nice little rounds and features that would be big $$ to machine in. I also have unlimited design freedom for alloy choice. My foundry will make me a custom melt. They have bins of low carbon scrap, chromium, manganese, silicon, vanadium, tungsten, etc and they cook each melt individually. This has allowed me to use an semi-custom aerospace alloy from the 1960s that is no longer commercially available. With the advanced heat treating processes available today I felt it was the best choice to balance hardness, resistance to impact and wear. So far it has proven to be a good choice.

The 'sprues' that can be seen on the outside of the parts are ejector pin marks from the wax pattern that is made in the mold during the investment process.

As for castings being cheap, well....jet turbine blades are cast, medical implants are cast, missile components are cast....... We have all seen cheap castings that break so they get a bad rap. I have been in foundries that are downright scary and no way that you would want to put castings in your weapon from there. I have also been in steel mills that do predominately nuclear stainless plate (some of our wonderful barstock) that were worse. The foundry I use looks like an operating room, robotics all over the place along with dedicated foundry workers to give each part a human touch. The engineering staff are all shooters and they take a personal interest in my parts. If the castings they make were cheap and inferior I would not use them.

Well, I hope the above dissertation did not bore anyone. I would be glad to answer any other questions.

If you will be at Perry this year look me up at White Oak Precision.....I will be there with John Holliger helping shooters.

The Best,
Bill_Geissele

[OutofBatt3ry]

Pretty much this, I don't care if Mark Larue makes the best trigger in the world, the guy is a massive a$$hole. I'd pay double the price of a MBT to a competitor trigger if they were equal to avoid giving my money to that douche.

So you're good with $6/gal gas because of mean tweets? lol. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Nice work. How was mark mean? For calling out idiots on ARF?

Mark made a trigger equal or better than G for a 1/4 the price. How's that bad?

[ChattanoogaPhil]

2022? Been using Wilson Combat TTU since 2014. LaRue MBT for 2S.

[Disciple]

PS: I'll take an aerospace alloy over tool steel any day. All tool steel does vs. advanced alloys is chew up tools at a faster rate.

Direct from the Geissele catalog:

GEISSELE TRIGGERS
PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGES FOR THE SHOOTER
Our triggers and hammers are made from quality S7 tool steel. The sear surfaces are precisely cut by a wire EDM machine.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Mark made a trigger equal or better than G for a 1/4 the price. How's that bad?

My thinking is buy the trigger ya really want regardless of price. Almost $300 for my TTU nearly a decade ago. It’s been used to send tens of thousands of rounds out the muzzle over the period. Price of the trigger is near nil in comparison to ammo. No sense sending so much money out the muzzle with a trigger that isn’t exactly what ya want.

[1168]

It kinda disgusts me that rails and triggers have basically become Air Jordans for middle aged white guys

Yeah, rails especially. People have gotten way to wrapped up in aesthetics and scarcity.

That's like the guy that thinks the latest driver will get him another 50 yards off the tee.

/thread.

[rpoL98]

Direct from the Geissele catalog:

yeah, first post was in 2007. you might want to allow for some technology development. it's been 15 yrs. not sure if wire EDM was cost effective back then, etc. maybe not. yeah, you're right. my bad.