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Thread: Full Power vs Commercially available lasers

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joethe33 View Post
    The MAWL and Wilcox Raid-XE/X and the like are exorbitantly expensive. They're absolutely robbing people. For example, in the last year or so, BE Meyers has steadily and suddenly on multiple occasions risen the MAP on the MAWL C+. The MAWL is a great laser, but it went from being a reasonable ~2200 priced laser system, to a now $3600 dollar system. I think they're doing it because 1. People are still dumb enough to pay the money because they're obviously still selling. 2. Hype/IG clout culture in the gun industry. 3. They saw the Xe's price and figured they should be priced in-line with it. Matt Meyers literally hangs around NVG groups and shames anyone who speaks ill of his product, especially when the thermal drift or battery drain issues come up. Though I have no personal experiences with the Wilcox team by contrast, their XE and X lasers (which are a superior design), are still considerably overpriced. Maybe they figured since they're using the same VSCEL technology as the NGAL, they can command the L3 price point.
    I mean, the NGAL is around that general price point, and I don't see why the RAID-Xe being a bit more expensive is controversial given that it has much more features (though some are of basically zero utility to non-institutional users), or the MAWL-C1+ being the new price it is. Full power DBAL-A3s are ~3k USD these days, so a few hundred on top of that for a MAWL seems pretty reasonable to me. There remains nothing like the MAWL-C1+ on the market currently; Wilcox does not provide any civilian accessible MFALs currently, and if you can get a Wilcox, you can just as easily get an FP DBAL-A3. The CQBL/300V combo is certainly workable, but I don't think it's really equivalent to something like the RAID-X/Xe, MAWL, NGAL, etc., given the lack of illumination focus and mode selection.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    I mean, the NGAL is around that general price point, and I don't see why the RAID-Xe being a bit more expensive is controversial given that it has much more features (though some are of basically zero utility to non-institutional users), or the MAWL-C1+ being the new price it is. Full power DBAL-A3s are ~3k USD these days, so a few hundred on top of that for a MAWL seems pretty reasonable to me. There remains nothing like the MAWL-C1+ on the market currently; Wilcox does not provide any civilian accessible MFALs currently, and if you can get a Wilcox, you can just as easily get an FP DBAL-A3. The CQBL/300V combo is certainly workable, but I don't think it's really equivalent to something like the RAID-X/Xe, MAWL, NGAL, etc., given the lack of illumination focus and mode selection.
    This wasn’t a direct comparison between the CQBL and newer lasers. More of a rant of how the market is limited to the MAWL for VSCEL. I recommended CQBL as an alternative to the 9007, A3 and ATPIAL-C.

    And also if the new EOTECH is priced like they say, it should shake up the market. Maybe if he would wait for that.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joethe33 View Post
    This wasn’t a direct comparison between the CQBL and newer lasers. More of a rant of how the market is limited to the MAWL for VSCEL. I recommended CQBL as an alternative to the 9007, A3 and ATPIAL-C.

    And also if the new EOTECH is priced like they say, it should shake up the market. Maybe if he would wait for that.
    Well, if it's just VCSEL illuminators that's wanted, I linked multiple possible options in my original post. I would be very curious to see what the L-3 unit looks like, for sure, though. I would love to put an MFAL on all of my rifles, but it would be prohibitively expensive to get top of the line units for every one (currently using a RAID-X and have a RAID-Xe on order).

    I misinterpreted your CQBL statements, I totally agree that such a set-up would generally be a better solution than the three MFALs that was originally mentioned, though you could certainly stick a KIJI on it and get a VCSEL illuminator with the set-up.
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 09-29-22 at 15:00.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

  4. #14
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    Had a chance to get out with some buddies who have various different setups, I definitely see the benefits of VSCEL technology, the mawl was pretty impressive comparative in my eyes to a FP peq. I'll keep my eyes out for the eotech unit in the coming year, for right now with my budget I think a DBAL D2 is gonna be the best bet. My only complaint with the d2 is the red glow caused by the LED. But its a compromise for better illumination.

  5. #15
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    Steiner raised prices again recently as well as discontinued the 9007 DBAL-I2 series. So now the only sub $1000. IR laser they offer is the OTAL-C.

    Many folks are coupling a Luna ELIR3 (when they are available!) with a DBAL-A3 or even an OTAL-C.

    The Luna is the most cost effective IR illuminator on the market with adjustable power and beam. Be careful is that little filter "falls off" the front as the unit gets very powerful. Thankfully they give you a little tool in the bag so you can you know put the filter back on....
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  6. #16
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    Any one gotten there hands on the vcsel unit from US night vision? That looks pretty sweet and same price rang as the D2's.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by danieljmaunder View Post
    Any one gotten there hands on the vcsel unit from US night vision? That looks pretty sweet and same price rang as the D2's.
    There's a review on a competing site. It seems like a decent unit but i'm saving my money for whatever Eotech is coming out with. I believe that it is going to be a fully featured MFAL at a reasonable price.

    3600-3800 dollar is not reasonable and I really honestly have no clue why anyone not on a government budget is buying those things. Granted, if you're absolutely flush with cash, rock on but most of us aren't.

    From what i'm seeing, the MSRP on the Eotech unit is going to be 1299. That's pretty freaking awesome.

    Last point to make here. Just FYI, VCSEL tech also emits a red glow much like LED's do. Forward signature is a non issue unless you're in a theatre of war.
    You are a genuine toolbag if you have your EDC "loadout" in your signature line...

  8. #18
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    Sounds like it might be worth holding out for the eotech unit then. Understood on the red glow, for most of us using these things it ain't gonna be downrange, just a factor I try and consider.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by danieljmaunder View Post
    Any one gotten there hands on the vcsel unit from US night vision? That looks pretty sweet and same price rang as the D2's.
    I own one and I think its pretty awesome. The form factor, vcsel illuminator, best low profile button and design ive seen to date. Only reason I am selling it and some nods is because I have a baby on the way and need some cash. The illuminator is non adjustable but comes with a diffuser cap. Ive run it in extremely low illum environments and high illum environments. The only thing I don't like is it has aimpoint acro adjustments, as in you can't feel anything so its all just turn it little by little and walk your rounds over until its zeroed haha.

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