So, who sabotaged the Nordstream pipeline?

**Averageman** · 10-02-22, 23:38

Originally Posted by Averageman

If it were the Russians what does this tell you?
They're in general retreat and they burn the bridges behind them?
They know they can't hold so here's a middle finger to Germany?

Russia is in an odd place right now, very unerving

Originally Posted by Todd.K

I think if Russia did it, a big part was for INTERNAL reasons.

Just my opinion, but..
I don't see these pipelines being busted is working to Russia's advantage in anyway.
What I do see is that Germany now cannot capitulate to Russia to get the fuel they need this winter. Busting those pipelines essentially means there's no going back now.

**gsd2053** · 10-03-22, 08:39

Originally Posted by Averageman

Just my opinion, but..
I don't see these pipelines being busted is working to Russia's advantage in anyway.
What I do see is that Germany now cannot capitulate to Russia to get the fuel they need this winter. Busting those pipelines essentially means there's no going back now.

I couldn't agree more. Russia knew they were going after Crimea before the pipelines were built. They also had to know and have had planned what they wanted of Ukraine as well. Not to mention,, I believe what was the rest of what was the USSR pre 1991 as well.

They are in the energy business. Those pipelines were a huge investment in their future. No way other factions inside Russia did this to facilitate the removal of Putin. These pipelines benefit Russia as a whole. Long after Putin will be gone.

This was a Nato advantage and the US told Biden to make that threat for a reason.

**mack7.62** · 10-03-22, 09:19

What I find puzzling is Russia seems pretty quite about this, if innocent I would expect a lot more protesting from them. Also I wonder who holds the paper on these, who financed the construction, I notice Credit Suisse And Deutsche Bank are in trouble and at distressed valuations. This is like a real life Game of Thrones, no way for us plebs to know who really benefits from this.

**tn1911** · 10-03-22, 09:39

Swedish coast guard said one of its planes had reported that the smaller leak over Nord Stream 2 has instead increased.

https://abcnews.go.com/International...leaks-90909813

**FromMyColdDeadHand** · 10-03-22, 09:48

Originally Posted by gsd2053

This was a Nato advantage and the US told Biden to make that threat for a reason.

Biden's comment that they would shut down the Nordstreams 'one way or the other' was either a foreshadowing eight months ahead- when everyone thought the war would last weeks if not days- or it was Biden's way of covering up that he couldn't name the political/financial/economic mechanisms to pressure the Russians. Occam's razor that....

**Harpoon** · 10-03-22, 13:08

Russia did it, so they can accuse us of committing an act of sabotage or treachery, which they could say is an act of war.

**Todd.K** · 10-03-22, 14:23

Originally Posted by Averageman

Just my opinion, but..
I don't see these pipelines being busted is working to Russia's advantage in anyway.
What I do see is that Germany now cannot capitulate to Russia to get the fuel they need this winter.

What about the pipelines through Ukraine? Things get bad enough in Europe and they have to pressure Ukraine to accept a ceasefire and start pumping gas. Or things get bad enough in Europe that mass protests may bring regime change that will stop propping up Ukraine.

But the biggest problem Putin has is manpower. He really needs his people to believe that NATO is after them, to get behind the war.

**Averageman** · 10-03-22, 14:25

Originally Posted by Harpoon

Russia did it, so they can accuse us of committing an act of sabotage or treachery, which they could say is an act of war.

Or we did it knowing that it removed the option for the Germans to work a side deal and capitulate to Russia for fuel this winter.
Take a look at whats going on in Germany, people are going out to the forrest to get wood for fuel. Grocery Stores have security tags on expensive pachages of meat.