Question on 10 shot groups.

[markm]

10-shot groups are required in some contracts.
You'll never make a group smaller by firing more rounds. You will learn a lot more, though.

We'll occasionally see a load APPEAR to settle down.... like shots 1 and 2 are not impressive, then 3-5 or more start tightening up. Those annoy me cuz I can't tell if I'm settling down or the barrel is fouling in or what.

[1168]

We'll occasionally see a load APPEAR to settle down.... like shots 1 and 2 are not impressive, then 3-5 or more start tightening up. Those annoy me cuz I can't tell if I'm settling down or the barrel is fouling in or what.

Its just the statistical stuff that Molon explained. Same with everyone complaining that their groups open up. Thats the point. Of course, I too, hate shooting groups, so I try to reserve judgement. I’m as guilty as anyone else for shooting 5 shot sample sizes, but I try not to read into them much. I need to do better.

Most of the time when I see people post about groups, I just keep scrolling, because I know they are cherry-picked 3 shot samples, or they would have said more. This is how women (and men) end up with body-image issues after flipping through magazines.

[T2C]

I want a 300 yard 10-shot group to evaluate my reload. If I cannot stay mentally focused long enough to fire 10 controlled shots, I'll fire a 5 shot group, then 5 more shots on top of the first group.

[markm]

I want a 300 yard 10-shot group to evaluate my reload. If I cannot stay mentally focused long enough to fire 10 controlled shots, I'll fire a 5 shot group, then 5 more shots on top of the first group.

I'd LOVE to be able to shoot 200 and 300 yard groups. The wind is never cooperating for that stuff where we shoot. If the wind was dead, it'd pick up by the time we set up paper.

[vicious_cb]

Its just the statistical stuff that Molon explained. Same with everyone complaining that their groups open up. Thats the point. Of course, I too, hate shooting groups, so I try to reserve judgement. I’m as guilty as anyone else for shooting 5 shot sample sizes, but I try not to read into them much. I need to do better.

Most of the time when I see people post about groups, I just keep scrolling, because I know they are cherry-picked 3 shot samples, or they would have said more. This is how women (and men) end up with body-image issues after flipping through magazines.

Seriously man, I completely ignore people who post 3 shot groups or throw out "flyers". I mean look at the butthurt these people get when I call someout out on cherry picking:

I’ll ignore nothing of value added to the thread and suggest you actually read what was going on.

I don’t need 10 shots to test if a load or particular seating depth will group.

1. I clearly state in the post that shot was me.
2. It doesn't matter, because that is the best group shot at magazine length and I'm not seating longer than magazine length.

If you can't read, and comprehend, maybe you shouldn't be posting here.

This is what I get for showing hidden content. Don't bother to respond as I won't be making that mistake again with you.

Anyway I try to practice what I preach. I don't call a barrel sub-minute if it can't do a sub-MOA 10-shot group with a commercial match load.

[T2C]

I'd LOVE to be able to shoot 200 and 300 yard groups. The wind is never cooperating for that stuff where we shoot. If the wind was dead, it'd pick up by the time we set up paper.

I consider myself lucky that I have access to a 300-yard range that experiences several no wind days each year. When there is no wind, everything else gets pushed aside, ammunition gets tested, and sights get zeroed.

[1168]

Here’s a great example of how gunwriters have helped us down this path: https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/pr...rth-the-weight

[markm]

I consider myself lucky that I have access to a 300-yard range that experiences several no wind days each year. When there is no wind, everything else gets pushed aside, ammunition gets tested, and sights get zeroed.

That's nice. I'd be thrilled with 200 yards. We used to shoot much more 200 yard paper at the public range. Wind was still a problem there, but there were fewer options so we tried it more often.

[MarshallDodge]

10 shot groups tend to magnify a problem. Whenever I make ammo, I have a goal. If the goal is to create cheap M193 clone ammo that will ring a steel silhouette inside of 300 yards or less , I'll grab random brass, the cheapest powder, primers, and 55 FMJ bullets that I can find, then run them through the progressive. I could probably make a couple 3 or 5 shot groups that are sub MOA but if I shoot 10, that oddball round or two is going to show up.

If the goal is precision, say sub 1/2 MOA, and I am able to control all the aspects of my loads and the rifle, I will shoot a couple of 5 shot groups while using a chrono to get an idea of what the load is doing. If the gun shoots two consecutive
5 shot groups, 0.35 and 0.41 MOA as an example, I'll consider that a good load and use it.

One of my rifles came with a 1/4 MOA 3-shot guarantee. With a fouled barrel, I put 3 shots into 0.22 MOA. To make certain it wasn't luck, I moved over a few inches on the target and put 5 into 0.3 MOA. At that point I was pretty convinced that the rifle lived up to the guarantee and proceeded to kill a milk jug at 1030 yards.

[AndyLate]

I shot one of my 16" ARs at 100 yards today with a 1-6 scope and decided "dang it, I am going to shoot a decent 10 shot group if it kills me". Nope, didn't happen. Shot multiple 55gr hollow and soft point 5 shot groups right at 1" fine tuning zero. Shot multiple 10 shot groups with 8 or 9 shots @1" and a shot or two far enough away to open the group up an extra .5-.75".

I am sure more magification wouldn't hurt, but I have always been able to shoot 5 shot groups well, then fall flat trying for ten.

Andy

BRT light optimum profile barrel, BCM upper, Sionics BCG, Larue 2 stage trigger.