Hackathorn on Red Dot's and Handguns

[gaijin]

The expected geezer perspective, yet some valid points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjlL0hYgdag

[WillBrink]

I posted that in the on going red dot thread. As I said in that thread, not sold on red dots personally for some of the reasons he outlines, but no doubt they offer some advantages.

[georgeib]

I posted that in the on going red dot thread. As I said in that thread, not sold on red dots personally for some of the reasons he outlines, but no doubt they offer some advantages.

I've mentioned this to you before, Will, but you will not be sold on them until you take the plunge and actually get one. With the determination to make it work. Once you do that, the advantages will become very real to you, especially as you watch your groups shrink, as well as increase your ability to make first round hits at 50 yards or more. You'll also see how much they improve your dry firing due to the instant feedback when you're less than smooth.

[gaijin]

Precision and ability to hit (accurately) at distance are their strong suits for me.

[m4brian]

Here is the problem I see. If you end up 'needing them', and you already own 'too many' guns it can get super expensive...

[gaijin]

Here is the problem I see. If you end up 'needing them', and you already own 'too many' guns it can get super expensive...

On the bright side; it's hella cheaper than mistresses' and Sports Cars.

[georgeib]

Here is the problem I see. If you end up 'needing them', and you already own 'too many' guns it can get super expensive...

Well... I "need" them... Which is really the main reason I bought my first one in the first place. Once I had one though, I realized what a benefit they are to me, and now won't buy a pistol that doesn't either have an optics cut or is readily able to take one. Eyes getting weaker sucks, but I now wish I'd switched to red dots a lot sooner due to the other benefits.

[themonk]

Great video, thank you for sharing. I was expecting it to be a total geezer perspective. I agree with about 90% of what he is saying. From my experience having red dot pistols (my first ATEi was in 2012) his numbers are spot on. You will need about 1k to draw to the dot along with recoil and 5k to be totally proficient and get your brain to focus on the target.

New shooters that shoot and want to learn with proper fundamentals will see a very quick learning curve with a dot. New shooters that are not going to put the work in with stance, grip, ect, a dot can be a nightmare as they spend so much time hunting for a dot.

I disagree with him on his distances, in that with a dot I can get precision hits from 7 to 25 yards and beyond with a dot, but my eyes suck. I am shooting broad side of a barn past 15y with irons.

I also disagree with him in that they won't last. I think for cops it is such a game changer. For people that kind of shoot (and learned to shoot with a dot) but don't really put the time in. You have the same advantage that you have on rifles that you're now focusing on the target and not the gun. But after shooting tens and tens of thousands of rounds if it was within say 7 yards, there is high probability I would just point shoot. I know, blasphemy!

[markm]

I'm still lobbying Congress for universal mounting mandates that don't come loose, and double the reliability. I'm in the envious position of being able to shoot a whole mess of pistol RDS set ups without having a financial stake in the evolution.

As far as having many pistols.... I'd really only want one or two with similar grip angle. Jumping around from gun to gun is no good because the RDS requires some adjustment and practice so you're not searching for the dot for half a minute when you should be shooting.

[WillBrink]

Great video, thank you for sharing. I was expecting it to be a total geezer perspective. I agree with about 90% of what he is saying. From my experience having red dot pistols (my first ATEi was in 2012) his numbers are spot on. You will need about 1k to draw to the dot along with recoil and 5k to be totally proficient and get your brain to focus on the target.

New shooters that shoot and want to learn with proper fundamentals will see a very quick learning curve with a dot. New shooters that are not going to put the work in with stance, grip, ect, a dot can be a nightmare as they spend so much time hunting for a dot.

I disagree with him on his distances, in that with a dot I can get precision hits from 7 to 25 yards and beyond with a dot, but my eyes suck. I am shooting broad side of a barn past 15y with irons.

Note what he said was, within SD distances, there's no differences, perhaps 7 yards and in, but at distance, big improvements with the red dot. He then discusses probability of such things. You/we can debate the issue of probability.

I also disagree with him in that they won't last. I think for cops it is such a game changer. For people that kind of shoot (and learned to shoot with a dot) but don't really put the time in. You have the same advantage that you have on rifles that you're now focusing on the target and not the gun. But after shooting tens and tens of thousands of rounds if it was within say 7 yards, there is high probability I would just point shoot. I know, blasphemy!

I'm gonna play devils advocate here and say considering how bad most LEOs are with their pistol, but for a small % who train and practice on their own time and dime, a red dot is a bandaid to lack of training and practice. I'd put the $ for the red dot to ammo/training/practice time.

LE is no different then others, they like their toys, don't like to train the essentials vs get more and new toys.

Now, LEOs with better training and regular practice and red dots, likely better equipped than no red dots. The vast majority who show up to pass the (very easy) yearly qual, may hit the range 1-2 times during the year, not so much...