What sidearm for carbine courses?

[FLGator]

I'm slowly acquiring the gear I'll need to start doing some carbine courses in2009. I was hoping some of the veterans could give me some advice about what sort of pistol is appropriate. I'd like to use something that would also be a good carry weapon/holster.
Specifically...
Would a non-collapsing IWB holster be appropriate?
Any problem with using a compact?
Generally, what range are you engaging targets at?
Any minimum as far as magazine capacity (for instance a compact .45 may only be 6+1)?

I know that these issues will vary from instructor to instructor but I just wanted to get some general ideas.

[Robb Jensen]

Glock 17 or 19 or S&W M&P9.

For a holster, either a good belt holster or a Safariland 6004/5.

[Jay Cunningham]

I'm slowly acquiring the gear I'll need to start doing some carbine courses in2009. I was hoping some of the veterans could give me some advice about what sort of pistol is appropriate. I'd like to use something that would also be a good carry weapon/holster.
Specifically...
Would a non-collapsing IWB holster be appropriate?
Any problem with using a compact?
Generally, what range are you engaging targets at?
Any minimum as far as magazine capacity (for instance a compact .45 may only be 6+1)?

I know that these issues will vary from instructor to instructor but I just wanted to get some general ideas.

This is an extremely broad question - don't get too hung up on it.

Don't get too hung up on "getting the right gear" to do a carbine class either. Class comes first, then gear. The instructor will let you know the minimum requirements.

Generally IWB holsters are not used in carbine classes, but some instructors will let you use them and some will encourage them.

I don't think a compact would be an issue, but you would be better off using a larger framed pistol, generally speaking - they tend to be easier to shoot.

Pistol transitions are generally done inside 25m. Pistol drills in the class may go out to shooting steel at greater than 100m.

The capacity of the 1911 is the minimum, I'd say. More importantly is to keep an appropriate number of magazines on your person.

The best thing you can do is talk with the individual instructor beforehand. FWIW, most pistols I see in classes are Glock 17's and 19's, S&W M&P 9's an 45's (full size) and semi-custom or custom 1911's. I see a smattering of SiG's and H&K's as well.

[Gutshot John]

I'm slowly acquiring the gear I'll need to start doing some carbine courses in2009. I was hoping some of the veterans could give me some advice about what sort of pistol is appropriate. I'd like to use something that would also be a good carry weapon/holster.
Specifically...
Would a non-collapsing IWB holster be appropriate?
Any problem with using a compact?
Generally, what range are you engaging targets at?
Any minimum as far as magazine capacity (for instance a compact .45 may only be 6+1)?

I know that these issues will vary from instructor to instructor but I just wanted to get some general ideas.

Well you want a gun that's going to be reliable, especially if you only have one. So shoot it quite a bit before you go to class.

1. A pistol is an individual choice. I'd suggest a 9mm platform and go from there.
2. An IWB holster may or may not be appropriate depending on the instructor. As such I'd still with a standard duty/belt holster or a thigh rig.
3. Compact should be fine.
4. Generally inside of 20 yards with sidearm/transitions.
5. No minimum as such, though the greater the capacity, the less you'll have to load. A compact 1911 should be ok so long as it's reliable.

[FLGator]

Thanks for all the good responses so far. I'll probably go with an M&P 9mm and save for a Wilson CQB. The reason I ask about a IWB is that I'm a civilian so this is by far the most likely way I'll be carrying. I could certainly get a drop holster just for courses but I'd rather train with a holster that I'll be using on a regular basis.

[Alpha Sierra]

I did one class with a revolver at my side in a pancacke. It is what I carry the most.

[John Frazer]

In my experience, the handgun segment of long gun classes tends to assume some prior handgun training. Personally, as a private citizen, I'd put handgun training as a higher priority than carbine training, then take a carbine class with whatever handgun you've been trained with.

Beyond that, any reliable, durable handgun that fits your hand and has decent sights and a decent trigger. You'll probably be unnecessarily compromised in terms of shootability if you use some kind of subcompact. Also, most instructors are geared toward semi-autos (because they're now 3/4 or more of the U.S. handgun market, and far higher than that in LE and military use), so showing up with a revolver may throw people off.

As for holsters, I can't say I've studied every policy of every carbine instructor, but I can tell you from personal experience that InSights Training Center has no problem with anyone using an IWB. The only limitation (which applies to all holsters for their classes) is that the holster must be "rigid." I took their rifle and shotgun classes with a Kramer IWB #3, which is what the instructors were using for both courses, too.

I noticed on Pat Rogers' website the other day that he doesn't allow IWBs for his pistol classes, but doesn't state this limitation for carbine classes. In a case like that, I'd follow the policy that it never hurts to ask. If the IWB isn't allowed, I'd get a belt holster that carries the pistol at a similar location and angle, such as the Kramer belt scabbard as an alternative to the IWB #3.

[Alpha Sierra]

I've taken one out of three handgun classes with a revolver and the instructor did not bat an eye. I've asked about using wheelguns in the other two classes and even though I used semis, both instructors told me they had no problems with wheelguns. All they asked is that you bring lots of speedloaders. Not a problem, they are cheap.

Back on the topic of holsters. Definitely ask ahead. I know that Suarez International has two policies concerning holsters: 1) Blackhawk SERPAs are not allowed in any class, period. 2) Belt (IWB or OWB) holsters are not allowed in rifle classes if you wear a chest rig. Policy #2 stems from an AD caused by a chest rig strap getting caught in the trigger guard of a Glock as the pistol was being reholstered. If you wear a chest rig to a Suarez rifle course you must wear a holster below the belt or on the chest rig itself.

[SHIVAN]

Based on the wording of your question, I would suggest a Glock 17 or M&P9 with an OWB kydex holster and mag pouches -- on a sturdy belt like a 5 stitch Wilderness.

The people I have seen use IWB holsters in combined classes were usually VERY proficient in the use of a pistol, knew how to draw from IWB without sweeping the other people on the line, and were above average pistol shooters.

Most IWB holsters I've seen are meant to be worn at the 4 or 5 o'clock position on a righty. Other than appendix carry, obviously - but those holster are kinda rare. Making a draw stroke on a line pretty "interesting".

I would HIGHLY suggest a pistol course before the carbine course, or a 1 day pistol 2 day carbine, or something similar.

[John Frazer]

I've taken one out of three handgun classes with a revolver and the instructor did not bat an eye. I've asked about using wheelguns in the other two classes and even though I used semis, both instructors told me they had no problems with wheelguns. All they asked is that you bring lots of speedloaders. Not a problem, they are cheap.

Fair enough and I should have put a great big YMMV on my comment about revolvers.

I do think it's fair to say (based in part on the AARs and pictures I see here) that revolvers are not "the norm" in defensive long gun classes today, and the proportion of instructors who have serious experience (especially operational experience) is likely declining. Two thirds of all handguns made in the US in the last 20 years have been semis, according to BATFE production stats, and imports would certainly skew that even farther.

In the four handgun classes I've taken over the last 10 years, I've seen only three or four revolvers, and one of those was carried by an instructor. In the three long gun classes I've taken in the same time period, no student used a revolver.