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Thread: Carry gun evaluation drills?

  1. #1
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    Carry gun evaluation drills?

    I'd like to do a series of drills, same day, to evaluate performance of myself & several pistols.

    Something I can put down some numbers. I have a timer of course. Each has already proven reliable so that is not in question. I want numbers for time and accuracy.

    I was thinking of this:

    1. 6 rds 25 yds no time limit. Using the most accurate ammo I have or 3 types or brands of ammo. For precision and point of impact. X3.

    2. Bill Drill drawn from concealed holster. Time & accuracy test. X3.

    3. Draw & fire one shot from 7, 15, and 25 yds. For time & accuracy. Will use most accurate ammo in each gun from previous 25 yd test. X6.

    Fire 10 rds from each gun before it is tested just to get used to it. I have hundreds of rounds (actually 1k plus) through each gun already.

    Any other ideas or additional drills I should do?

    The goal is partly to separate what I like to what actually performs best with me. And knowledge and fun. I suspect there won't be much difference except for the small guns not doing as well at 25 yds.

  2. #2
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    The draw and first shot at from 3 to 7 yds. for “Carry Gun” drill is prudent, if not vital.
    Starting from different positions (seated, back to target, bent over, etc) is helpful.
    The old “Mozambique”, I guess “failure to stop” now is good, practiced at speed, 3-7 yds.
    While I totally agree 25 yd. hits at speed are desirable, that’s likely statistically irrelevant.
    There are any number of good Drills to be found online, or Utube.
    Last edited by gaijin; 11-12-22 at 08:46.
    A true "Gun Guy" (or gal) should have familiarity and a modicum of proficiency with most all firearms platforms.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    The draw and first shot at from 3 to 7 yds. for “Carry Gun” drill is prudent, if not vital.
    Starting from different positions (seated, back to target, bent over, etc) is helpful.
    The old “Mozambique”, I guess “failure to stop” now is good, practiced at speed, 3-7 yds.
    While I totally agree 25 yd. hits at speed are desirable, that’s likely statistically irrelevant.
    There are any number of good Drills to be found online, or Utube.

    Thanks.

    Trying to focus on the major differences in performance between each gun. One has an optic.

    Going to do a small number of important drills in one day with several guns.

    I was thinking of excluding drills under 7 yds because although I do train those, I don't recall ever seeing much difference in performance results between guns. (I.e. Draw, have good grip and form, slap trigger as quickly as I can, get good hits) So I think for the purpose of these drills I can start from where sights begin to have high importance.

    I'll consider the Mozambique drill heavily.
    Last edited by Ron3; 11-12-22 at 09:49.

  4. #4
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    I've never been much of a "failure drill" fan.

    I prefer techniques that don't have a "stop" built in. When I learned of this drill a long time ago I practiced it with four shots. Two upper center torso, two to head. The idea being that if I really thought I got one or both of those body hits and nothing good for me has happened I should just target the head after that.

    Later I dropped that and just starting doing a "zipper". Start upper center chest and then walk it up to the head in 5 or 6 shots. So that's what i train as far as that goes.

    Perhaps I could alter my bill drill into the "zipper"? Or I may do the "2 chest 2 head" thing.

  5. #5
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    Sure.
    And if you’re effort is to quantify results per handgun, keep track of times/hits for each.
    It may be revealing.
    A true "Gun Guy" (or gal) should have familiarity and a modicum of proficiency with most all firearms platforms.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    Sure.
    And if you’re effort is to quantify results per handgun, keep track of times/hits for each.
    It may be revealing.
    Yup. That's the plan. Same range visit, record data for later review.

    When I shoot drills w/a timer or measure groups I rarely write it down. I've done similar comparisons where I recorded the numbers using 2 guns. And kept some targets to remind me of a pistol / ammo / me combo's accuracy potential and POI. One of them was an LCR .357 with various ammo. There was essentially no difference in my performance between wadcutter loads and 158 gr +p loads. Mild .357 mag loads were only slightly slower time-wise but possibly worth it depending on the bullet, etc. Full-power .357 loads were much slower and my accuracy dropped. Not worth it. Duh, right?

    But I wanted to do something more comprehensive. There are other factors related to performance such as carry comfort, capacity, etc., but it will be good to have real shooting data to factor into the decisions about which gun to carry when.

    And it will be fun and good practice.
    Last edited by Ron3; 11-12-22 at 14:34.

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    This has been a heck of an endeavor!

    I end up firing alot more rounds than I thought I would because I can't just run say, the 3 Bill Drills. Because the first three or five get incrementally better until I throw one off the A-zone. So I do them until they get into a repeatable range and record the fastest three.

    I have one more gun to do this with before my little study is done. It takes alot of time to shoot, record time, measure groups, change targets, etc. I need a hot range bunny for this.

    I'll post up some numbers when I'm done.

    One surprising thing has been the Beretta M92X. It works 100%, but accuracy-wise there is ammo it loves (Underwood 68 gr) and hates (Fiocchi 147 gr FMJ).

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    Posted elsewhere, but thought I'd put the numbers here, too.

    All first shots DA as carried unless stated otherwise.

    1 shot, from concealment. (A fitting T-shirt. Not tight, not lose). All from IWB holsters at 2-2:230. Average of the 5 best times on that range visit. A-Zone hits only, 6x11 in.

    7 yds:

    S&W M&P 2.0 full size .45 with Leopold Micro Dot: 1.9s.

    Beretta M92X Centurion, factory sights: 1.8s

    Colt King Cobra, factory sights: 1.7s

    The Colt over-acheived. I think because the grip-shape (finger grooved Hogue) is more consistent, the gun lighter, and the brighter color of the gun gives feedback about the draw while it's in progress.

    25 yds.

    S&W: 3 misses, best 5 avg: 2.7s (the misses surprised me. Just going too fast I guess)

    M92X: 2 misses, best 5 avg: 2.5s (DA)

    Colt King Cobra: No misses, 3.0s (yes, 5 draws from concealment & 5 A-zone double-action hits does feel good! The Colt over-achives again.

    Bill Drill. From concealment, same A zone, 7 yds, 6 shots. About 8 attempts each. Average of the best 5, any misses are a failure.

    S&W: 2.7s (1 fail) I think this was about the best I could do.

    M92X: 3.0 (2 fail) I feel like I could do better with this gun.

    Colt King Cobra: 2.9s. (No failures) I feel like this was the best I could do. (Faster than the 92?! It is what it is!)

    Best group I could manage at 25 yds, all slow, single-action shooting free-hand:

    S&W: 2.6 inches. Groups were consistently good. 3.6 in was the worst. (I need to double check this, worst may have been 3.2)

    Beretta M92X: 2.5 inches. But averaged 4 to 5 with most ammo.

    King Cobra: 4.0 in. The average was worse because I had no decent ammo. (Reloads and PPU LRN) I need to shoot & measure groups again with my carry ammo but I didn't have enough.

    I still have another gun or two to record numbers with.

    It would be interesting to see data from other people doing a similar thing; tthat is run two or more guns through a battery of drills to compare & contrast with some numbers included.

    Especially ammo. Much of my regular 25 yd shooting is on steel, and against paper, I assume not doing well is on me. Well, not always! As I said the M92X, for example, shot 2.5 in & 3.2 5 shot groups with Underwood 68 gr +p (with a perfect POI, too) while new Fiocchi 147 gr FMJ shot 7 in and 8 in. But that same Fiocchi did just fine from another gun.

    Also, Freedom Munitions steel case plated bullets were getting shredded by the over-bored M92. Could see it on the paper targets. It actually didn't group badly, somehow, but the groups were way low and right. Weird.

    I maintain plated bullets are best at 15 yds and in. I haven't had good luck with them and not going to reload with them, either.
    Last edited by Ron3; 11-18-22 at 09:45.

  9. #9
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    The drills I run every time I shoot pistol are:

    Bill Drill
    FAST Drill
    Defoor Hat Drill (B8, 25 yds, 10 rds, 20 seconds)

    Some drills I run occasionally are:
    P1T Cold Standard
    CO POST Qual from Concealment
    Presscheck No Fail Drill

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron3 View Post

    It would be interesting to see data from other people doing a similar thing; tthat is run two or more guns through a battery of drills to compare & contrast with some numbers included.
    Many years ago, I did something loosely similar. Time based drills with transitions between multiple targets.
    I found out that I shoot a P226 better than the Beretta 92 FS, an M&P 9 (stock trigger), Glock17 (stock trigger), or a Browning High Power (magazine disconnector removed). A CZ-75 came in a very close second. These were not all tested at once, so each session I had a Ruger GP-100 that I used as a comparison 'standard' since the set-ups varied some during the testing.

    Runs with misses were not accepted.
    Guns were swapped after each run to avoid familiarity biasing the times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron3 View Post
    I maintain plated bullets are best at 15 yds and in. I haven't had good luck with them and not going to reload with them, either.
    I think that depends on the gun and the plated bullets. Not sure I would be using Freedom Munitions for accuracy testing.
    I certainly would expect jacketed bullets to do better than plated but it again depends on who made the bullets.

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