Dallas Airshow Crash

**RHINOWSO** · 11-12-22, 16:57

At least it was quick for all involved. RIP Aviators.

**Averageman** · 11-12-22, 17:06

Just sad, wow...

**JDH1** · 11-12-22, 17:46

Originally Posted by kerplode

Damn.

Loss of human life aside, the destruction of the B17 is heartbreaking all on its own. There are only a hand full of those still airworthy...Now one less.

There were only 5 known airworthy P63s. There are a few being restored as museum pieces. As you said, loss of life aside, it is a tragic loss of a historic aircraft.

**SteyrAUG** · 11-12-22, 17:54

Originally Posted by Averageman

I'm pretty sure that B-17 appeared locally 4 or 5 years ago, you could actually pay to have them take you up for a ride.

Yep, pretty sure I've seen it a couple times. When my grandfather was still alive I always took him to the airshows because they had a B-17 and a B-24 (he was a top turret gunner on a 24 during the war).

I really hope that there were no war veterans on that 17 at the time, I don't wish anyone dead but that would really be a hard additional tragedy to accept.

While I love airshows, I think they are inherently dangerous, with so many planes flying so low in close proximity simply to entertain an audience. I love watching things like the Blue Angels but I just don't think it's worth the couple dozen pilots who have died over the years. And once you see something that terrible, you aren't ever gonna want to see another air show again.

They should really limit them to planes on display, it's actually far more interesting to see them up close. And my grandfather really had no interest in "another flight" on a B-24, I offered and he told me he was still glad his last flight was the last one he had to do. It was more interesting for him to simply do a walk through.

At the most they should do selected fly bys of certain planes where they have the airspace to themselves.

**Gabriel556** · 11-12-22, 18:02

This is a rough day. I know the B-24 pilot that was flying with them. Nobody on the B-17 had a chance to see and avoid the collision, nor once the tail was cut off was there any hope for surviving that fall. I don’t know yet who the crews were but the warbird community is small and close knit. No matter what the investigations prove, none of those crews are coming home tonight and this will permanently change air shows and warbird flight.

**qsy** · 11-12-22, 18:48

Watched all of the videos. I don't think the P-63 ever saw the B-17 that he hit. One of the videos shows a formation in trail on the B-17. The way the P-63 came in the B-17 would have been under the nose/floor of the cockpit. Looks like he thought the #2 aircraft (B-24?) was the lead. Sad.

**FromMyColdDeadHand** · 11-12-22, 20:28

Originally Posted by qsy

Watched all of the videos. I don't think the P-63 ever saw the B-17 that he hit. One of the videos shows a formation in trail on the B-17. The way the P-63 came in the B-17 would have been under the nose/floor of the cockpit. Looks like he thought the #2 aircraft (B-24?) was the lead. Sad.

Sounds like the classic low wing issue, which at that bank angle, he never saw the B17, crazy as it seems.

My son is working on his pilots license and is looking at colleges for pro-flight programs. These mid-airs SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF ME. I know that is very different than this accident, but it is related. Especially with all the Cessna(high) and Piper(low) interactions here in the front range. We have a bout 1 mid air per year. Just had one. That ASDB(?) system is useless for student pilots training and actively maneuvering. Right now it seems like the FAA and aviation community have thrown up their hands- but these mid airs have to be creeping up in the percentage of air fatalities. It is just pure random chance.

Frankly, since these are almost always clear-air/good-weather accidents, It seems like a camera with some AI mounted in top of a Cessna and the bottom of Pipers could at least give you a few seconds to break towards a safe direction..

Originally Posted by Gabriel556

This is a rough day. I know the B-24 pilot that was flying with them. Nobody on the B-17 had a chance to see and avoid the collision, nor once the tail was cut off was there any hope for surviving that fall. I don’t know yet who the crews were but the warbird community is small and close knit. No matter what the investigations prove, none of those crews are coming home tonight and this will permanently change air shows and warbird flight.

Amazing that it doesn’ happen more at Oshkosh- in the show or just arrivals and departures.

**Artos** · 11-12-22, 22:25

Originally Posted by Gabriel556

This is a rough day. I know the B-24 pilot that was flying with them. Nobody on the B-17 had a chance to see and avoid the collision, nor once the tail was cut off was there any hope for surviving that fall. I don’t know yet who the crews were but the warbird community is small and close knit. No matter what the investigations prove, none of those crews are coming home tonight and this will permanently change air shows and warbird flight.

Amen...for those that follow these shows, if you have ever seen the tora tora tora reenactment my step dad is the announcer / coordinator for that routine & again this is a very tight knit group. The 63 pilot used to fly with them & if any further 411 flows through I will pass it along. Sad day.