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Thread: pros and cons of WMLs

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 454308 View Post
    I would think the climate you live in would have more effect than ammo /gun.
    Good point. I know we were often freezing our butts off for the night portions, but I can't remember if that was carbine or pistol.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Cart View Post
    Could be, makes me want to get out tonight and see if my memory is just bad.
    I'd like to get back out and to this too. We shot way more low light on our own when Iraqgunz was still around because his ass would always show up as the sun was going down.

    I'll have to talk the guys into a night shoot and revisit this again. My low light training is many years back now. And more importantly, I'd like to run my M4 with the light a little because I NEVER get live fire practice for that anymore.
    Last edited by markm; 11-23-22 at 15:38.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waylander View Post
    First I think I need to get up to your level on Keen Observations. The wife has been on me since we got married.
    No need for sarcasm.

    When you mention sweeping with a weapon light in the first line of the post it screams "I'm a cheapskate that refuses to properly use the tools you own".

    Fun fact, only a moron would pull a weaponlight to determine what they are scared of. A pocket light is what you should use to determine if a threat is actually a threat.

    A little secret squirrel info. A hand held in the weak hand can be dropped in less than one second if you need to dispatch a threat that you are now aware of.

  3. #23
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    My 2Ę... I have weapon lights on all defensive firearms with the exception of my p365 and my heavy magnified scope rifles. I also ALWAYS carry a 650 lumen pocket light. I have 4 Lumintop Tool AA lights, which I run with rechargeable 14500 batteries, but which are also capable of taking AAs. Albeit with a lower max lumens. Handiest little light ever. The pocket clip can be reversed so that the light can be clipped to a hat's visor and function as a sort of head light too.

    Regular light here: https://smile.amazon.com/LUMINTOP-Fl...dp/B07X3BMZXS/


    All copper version here: https://smile.amazon.com/Copper-Flas...dp/B0915PWJRL/
    ďYou have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.Ē -Augustine

  4. #24
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    pros and cons of WMLs

    For a little background, the handhelds I have are Streamlight 2XL, 1LAA, and 1AAA. They are all three within reach at all times.
    I also have a Surefire X300 on my nightstand pistol. I donít carry with a WML mostly due to bulk and holster fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inkslinger View Post
    Iím sure someone will come along to explain this better, but hereís my two cents. Use the spill of the light to help identifying threats and non-threats. Donít over use your light. You can use a handheld even if you have a wml. Just know how to shoot with a handheld. Sweeping a non-threat is not the end of the world. Remember, all of the 4 firearms rules can be violated individually, itís when you start violating them in combination that bad things happen.
    All good points. Basically if somebody is breaking in, they need to be lit up anyway and flagging would be an afterthought at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Cart View Post
    I'm not an "expert" by any stretch of the imagination, but having done a lot of shoot house training in no-light and low-light, I have WMLs on all of my guns (pistol and rifle) because they are extremely useful. I also frequently carry a little Streamlight Pro Tact flashlight in my pocket at night that i can use to identify things when needed, without drawing a pistol.

    But if you have a weapon drawn, you are probably in a situation where flagging may happen, and trigger control is important. And you can still light someone up with the light spill without having the gun pointed directly at them.

    I think thatís where my concern or lack of knowledge comes into play. Like mentioned above, I always have a handheld on me so itís my first instinct to grab either at home or away. Iím my mind, the redundancy of a WML seems nice BUT does it add too much complication (for me)? Not only do I have to get accustomed to using my handheld and holding the weapon at the same time, but I have to worry about activating the WML within seconds or less.

    That being said, some of the newer lights Iíve seen can be more easily activated with very little deviation from the standard grip as mostly an afterthought. In that case, using both seems like a good idea.



    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    This is a tricky topic. In AZ if I light up someone with a pistol mounted light in public and they turn out to be innocent of anything, I could be charged with Agg Assault for pointing a gun at someone.

    This is one reason I don't like pistol mounted lights. I definitely carry my light separate from my pistol when out walking the dogs... that way I could light anyone approaching without worrying.

    Rifle, on the other hand is an "in home" weapon, so anyone inside who doesn't belong there is legally subject to lethal force in AZ. Plus trying to shoot long gun with a handheld light is exhausting.
    This is where I lean because lighting somebody up and flagging them at home isnít as big of an issue.

    In AL you can get charged with ďmenacingĒ for pointing a gun at somebody. It isnít as serious as an assault but still not something Iíd not want a record for.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Cart View Post
    As a civilian, why would you have a pistol drawn in public if there wasn't an immediate threat? I don't think anyone is advocating using your pistol light to just check things out. And if there is an active threat that justifies the use of deadly force, i highly doubt you're gonna get slapped with Aggravated Assault charge for having a drawn pistol.

    This situation dictates the tool, and if you just need to check out a "potential" threat, most cell phones have a decent light, and there are many small pocket light options for that. Nobody should be drawing a pistol casually in public.

    When it comes to actually engaging targets, i much prefer engaging with a weapon mounted light vs holding a flashlight while shooting.
    Again not even knowing if there is a threat warrants using a handheld first. Do you personally practice dropping the handheld and transitioning to the WML at that point? I might lean toward using both at that point. Either way, there are complications at play.
    Last edited by Waylander; 11-24-22 at 15:15.

  5. #25
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    I was shooting 9mm at dusk with the X300 in fairly high humidity a few months ago. The smoke cloud was pretty bad and the ammo was Federal ball.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waylander View Post
    Again not even knowing if there is a threat warrants using a handheld first. Do you personally practice dropping the handheld and transitioning to the WML at that point? I might lean toward using both at that point. Either way, there are complications at play.
    Personally, when transitioning from handheld to pistol light, i've always kept my handheld light up until my pistol is coming on target and then i drop or stow the handheld and use the WML with a two handed pistol grip. You could keep both if it suits you.

    At the end of the day, how many people ACTUALLY train using lights in low and no-light situations? Probably not many. There are pros and cons to both methods, and I think the key here is finding out what works for you, and then training until it's comfortable.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by .45fan View Post
    No need for sarcasm.

    When you mention sweeping with a weapon light in the first line of the post it screams "I'm a cheapskate that refuses to properly use the tools you own".

    Fun fact, only a moron would pull a weaponlight to determine what they are scared of. A pocket light is what you should use to determine if a threat is actually a threat.

    A little secret squirrel info. A hand held in the weak hand can be dropped in less than one second if you need to dispatch a threat that you are now aware of.
    You can always bounce from your wml, although this is an indoor tactic by and large.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waylander View Post
    I was shooting 9mm at dusk with the X300 in fairly high humidity a few months ago. The smoke cloud was pretty bad and the ammo was Federal ball.
    If there's a breeze it's only partly terrible. I can't imagine in a structure where it just hangs there.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waylander View Post
    I was shooting 9mm at dusk with the X300 in fairly high humidity a few months ago. The smoke cloud was pretty bad and the ammo was Federal ball.
    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    If there's a breeze it's only partly terrible. I can't imagine in a structure where it just hangs there.
    This is a big part of the reasoning behind high candela WMLs. I have an x300u (1000 lumens & 11,300 candela), and a couple TLR-HLs (1000 lumens & 20,000 candela), and they don't really qualify - though the Streamlights do a slightly better job than the more expensive Surefire in this regard. A Modlite PL350 with either the OKW (680 lumens & 69,000 candela) or PLHv2 head (1350 lumens & 54,000 candela) would do a much better job in overcoming photonic barriers, such as gunpowder smoke, than high lumen but relatively lower candela lights such as the Surefire and Streamlight.
    Last edited by georgeib; 11-25-22 at 09:23.
    ďYou have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.Ē -Augustine

  10. #30
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    Interesting point. I've never tried a variety of lights. For a pistol mounted light, serious scrutiny on what minimizes the blinding reflection would be wise. I say that because the smoke in itself isn't the problem. It's the instant white reflection on the smoke that is the problem.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

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