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Thread: Annealing Rifle Brass, again...

  1. #21
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    After reading on that tempilaq stuff, I passed on it completely. Too hit and miss. What I did to get a feel for annealing was do some runs in lower light where I could make sure not to heat to a cherry red and cook off the Zinc. And then I took my feel for that time and ran the brass in light where I can watch for the oxidation iris on the neck/shoulder.

    I don't get a brilliant iris like new Lapua Brass, but I get a visible iris. People talk about this "spring back" with plyers stuff and all that. I could never make sense of that. I just settled on NOT over heating with a light visible iris, and it seems to work pretty good.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKGuns View Post
    Probably smart until you get your process nailed.
    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    After reading on that tempilaq stuff, I passed on it completely. Too hit and miss. What I did to get a feel for annealing was do some runs in lower light where I could make sure not to heat to a cherry red and cook off the Zinc...
    This makes sense to me...

    Cortina mentions in his video, too, that he has the lights down low so that he can see the flame and any red glow in the brass.

    I'll use the Tempilaq to get the machine set up (using Berdan brass, which is scrap anyway), so that I'm at least in the ballpark, and then the machine should be consistent.

    I'm a little (only a little) anxious about setting the flame consistently from batch to batch, but I figure I'll just put a witness mark on the torch's knob.



    Musing at the keyboard:

    I'm wondering whether/how bad it would be to cook off some of the the zinc or tin in the neck and shoulder, assuming you could do it without overheating the whole case.

    It occurs to me that the ideal brass case would have more zinc/tin in the head and body, and little or none (almost pure copper) in the shoulder and neck, so that the neck would be very soft and flexible, and the head would be very strong.

    I'm thinking here of the new "True Velocity" plastic/steel cases, where they using verrrry different materials for the neck and body (plastic) and the head (steel).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmer View Post
    I'll use the Tempilaq to get the machine set up (using Berdan brass, which is scrap anyway), so that I'm at least in the ballpark, and then the machine should be consistent.
    The thing is, different brass can be different by 1-3 seconds of flame time. Messing with Berdan isn't a bad idea to start, but it could be off a bit from your good brass.

    I'm wondering whether/how bad it would be to cook off some of the the zinc or tin in the neck and shoulder, assuming you could do it without overheating the whole case.
    According to my reading, the brass is ruined if you remove the zinc in the neck/shoulder. You'd really have to be negligent to get the head hot enough to soften... I mean the brass would be visibly trashed if the head/web got that hot.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    The thing is, different brass can be different by 1-3 seconds of flame time. Messing with Berdan isn't a bad idea to start, but it could be off a bit from your good brass.
    I guess I'm thinking that I want some objective measure of how hot I'm getting the brass. (Like using a chrono and calipers to gauge my reloads.)

    So, if I paint the inside of several case's necks with Tempilaq, and then I can see that they're hitting 750F as they run through the machine, then I can be confident that I'm getting them hot enough.

    (NB: One of those videos I link shows painting Tempilaq on the outside of the neck, and it turning black when flamed, and that's NOT how to use Tempilaq!)


    I understand the idea that different headstamps are different compositions of copper/tin/zinc, but I'm assuming that going through the same machine (with the settings the same) a Radway Green case neck is going to heat up about the same as the neck of a Lapua case would.

  5. #25
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    I'm not sure how much the composition of the brass impacts flame time. But heft/thickness is surely a factor. With 6.5 Lapua, Hornady, and Norma, etc all seem to be very close. With 308 and 300wm the lighter brass has thinner necks that need like 2 seconds less flame time to get an oxidation iris. I live off of visible iris with no bright cherry red glow.

    It's really best to just jump in and figure it out... starting with lower value brass and going from there.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  6. #26
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    Size of flame, position/time in flame, and angle of case in flame all matter for consistency within a lot. I have used a bunch of tempilaq. It will demonstrate the above for you. It's a pain. Get 2 bottles of thinner with each bottle of indicator. Tedious to apply, and it dries angrily in the bottle as you try to apply it. Once melted, walnut media (with or without added polish) doesn't thoroughly remove it in my experience. Thus I apply it on outside below the main body shoulder break as opposed to in the neck. I have applied inside neck and outside below shoulder on same case, and found it did not matter. Easier to spin remove in steel wool than to wear out brushes in the neck. 700 too cold, 800 has been good. Jury still out on the 750 I currently have. Eyeballing has led to a bunch of flamed out necks for me. Seating effort most consistent I have ever experienced after Giraud. I assume any machine more consistent than me by hand (until I build a jig?). Too bad the Giraud was for 1st loading of range pickup for 62fmj instead of for 175 308s to compare at long range. But Girauded 62s did just over moa at 100 from an Anderson (cough, cough) 16incher....
    Last edited by triggerjerk; 11-30-22 at 19:27.

  7. #27
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    Annealeeze is my recommendation. Mine just works. Really simple and repeatable. Use tempelaq stuff to set speed and go to town.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #28
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    I went with the Mikes Reloading Bench Annealer which is like a really nicely made anealeez.

    https://www.mikesreloadingbench.com/mrb2018_006.htm

  9. #29
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    300 WM Norma brass

    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  10. #30
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    Man! There is a huge uptick in Annealing interest lately. Guys in my office built some crazy gizmo that works good. And there's a new thread every day on Accurateshooter.

    Dude was showing me the Annealeze (spelling?) for like 300 bucks. I could almost be tempted to buy that thing.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

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