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Thread: Registering or Buying an SBR

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DwayneZ View Post
    I think you are misunderstanding all of it.

    A "SBR" (the receiver) is the "firearm". There is no need to call it out as a "receiver". A "SBR" that has a stamp, needs no barrel and will reamain a "SBR" NFA item w/ or w/o any barrel attached. Traveling around with just the "SBR" (receiver only, the firearm) is traveling around with an NFA item.
    I guess we'll just have to disagree. ATF has written back to guys that nothing is required for an SBR to go back to Title 1 other than placing a barrel 16" or longer. They will grant requests to remove an SBR from the registry, but it is not needed.

    Caveat here being that ATF will send letters that contradict other gun owners' letters too.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    I guess we'll just have to disagree. ATF has written back to guys that nothing is required for an SBR to go back to Title 1 other than placing a barrel 16" or longer. They will grant requests to remove an SBR from the registry, but it is not needed.

    Caveat here being that ATF will send letters that contradict other gun owners' letters too.
    Letters from the interns. I would not fully trust those letters.

    But, speaking of letters from ATF, what letter from ATF says putting a 16"+ on a stamped SBR makes it a non-NFA firearm? Can someone post it? If such letter was given, it's likely a mistake, and the FTA morons reserve the right to re-clarify their sh!t. Those letters also apply to whom they are responding to, not to everyone who reads it.
    The "look ma, not a NFA item now" does not work. The NFA "firearm" (receiver, tube, whatever got the stamp) remains NFA item, 20" barrel makes no diff, can w/o internals and no cap makes no diff, they are still NFA items.

  3. #63
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    Here is the rule from the ATF published NFA Handbook:

    nfWSlA2.jpg

    It clearly states that, with the exception of machine guns and suppressors, once you have removed the features making a weapon fall under the purview of the NFA, "it is no longer an NFA weapon."
    “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.” -Augustine

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgeib View Post
    Here is the rule from the ATF published NFA Handbook:

    nfWSlA2.jpg

    It clearly states that, with the exception of machine guns and suppressors, once you have removed the features making a weapon fall under the purview of the NFA, "it is no longer an NFA weapon."
    NFA Handbook found here: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/gu...53208/download

    The pertinent section is found on page 21, FYI. Which is actually the 33rd page of the pdf document.
    “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.” -Augustine

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DwayneZ View Post
    I think you are misunderstanding all of it.

    If you take off supressor end cap and remove all the internals, you are left with what is essentially a linear fwd comp, linear comps are not subject to NFA rules, but what you are left with is still an NFA item.
    I already said machine guns are different, I forgot to say silencers are as well. The ATF clearly says that other than those two, it is specific features than make it NFA. Remove the features and it’s not subject to the NFA.

    My position is simple: If it doesn’t have the features, it’s not NFA, so it shouldn’t be transferred as NFA.

    I’m citing the ATF and the Law directly. You have cited NOTHING to back up your position.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgeib View Post
    Here is the rule from the ATF published NFA Handbook:

    nfWSlA2.jpg

    It clearly states that, with the exception of machine guns and suppressors, once you have removed the features making a weapon fall under the purview of the NFA, "it is no longer an NFA weapon."
    .................. and then you can write ATF asking for the item to be "unstamped", because you changed it to be not an NFA item. Like if say you wanted to sell your SBR "firearm", meaning your receiver (the "firearm") and whatever is attached to it. If it's a SBR and you put a 20" on it, that serial will retain NFA status (unless you unstamp it), making it harder to sell. You cannot just slap on a 16"+ and then sell it as a std non-NFA rifle, it's still an SBR ("firearm", the receiver w/ serial).

    If it's machine gun or supe, you cannot ask FTA to change the status of that "firearm" (other than destroy). What the FTA "clearly states" is, you can stamp to SBR, but they do allow you to unstamp it. That process is not you putting a 16"+ on a SBR. They simply gave example of how a "firearm" can be a NFA item, and then same item be un-NFA'd, in contrary to machine gun or supe, etc.



    The "features" tell you how the paperwork/tax will be, or not be. The features don't allow you to switch between NFA and non-NFA item (unless to stamp it, then unstamp it), the serial (or lack of) is or is not an NFA item.

    In other words, whatever "features" you make the item have, that will dictate how you declare the item. Once declared via stamp, that's how it stays regardless of features. Duly noted, I believe FTA wants it to remain as stated on stamp form, so if you put 20" on SBR and the FTA tards come knocking, they expect you to be able to show them the configuration as stated on the stamp form, right then and there, "hey, nice 20" SBR you have, now show me the 10" configuration".

    So to sum up, sure, put a 20" on a legal SBR, it's still an SBR.

    I am 100% confident this is how the FTA folks will call it.

    Any pics of the letters to share? I am curious.
    Last edited by DwayneZ; 12-09-22 at 12:35.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by DwayneZ View Post
    .................. and then you can write ATF asking for the item to be "unstamped", because you changed it to be not an NFA item. Like if say you wanted to sell your SBR "firearm", meaning your receiver (the "firearm") and whatever is attached to it. If it's a SBR and you put a 20" on it, that serial will retain NFA status (unless you unstamp it), making it harder to sell. You cannot just slap on a 16"+ and then sell it as a std non-NFA rifle, it's still an SBR ("firearm", the receiver w/ serial).

    If it's machine gun or supe, you cannot ask FTA to change the status of that "firearm" (other than destroy). What the FTA "clearly states" is, you can stamp to SBR, but they do allow you to unstamp it. That process is not you putting a 16"+ on a SBR. They simply gave example of how a "firearm" can be a NFA item, and then same item be un-NFA'd, in contrary to machine gun or supe, etc.



    The "features" tell you how the paperwork/tax will be, or not be. The features don't allow you to switch between NFA and non-NFA item, the serial (or lack of) is or is not an NFA item.

    In other words, whatever "features" you make the item have, that will dictate how you declare the item. Once declared via stamp, that's how it stays regardless of features. Duly noted, I believe FTA wants it to remain as stated on stamp form, so if you put 20" on SBR and the FTA tards come knocking, they expect you to be able to show them the configuration as stated on the stamp form, right then and there.

    So to sum up, sure, put a 20" on a legal SBR, it's still an SBR.

    I am 100% confident this is how the FTA folks will call it.
    This is patently false. An SBR by legal definition is a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16". This is not a difficult concept to understand. It is no more complicated than that, and stated so in DOJ publication the NFA Handbook.
    “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.” -Augustine

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DwayneZ View Post
    …come knocking, they expect you to be able to show them the configuration as stated on the stamp form, right then and there, "hey, nice 20" SBR you have, now show me the 10" configuration".
    Can you cite one time where that happened?

    Because there is nothing in the Law that requires the registry to be updated. It’s illegal to have an SBR without tax stamp. No prohibition on changing the barrel length exists in the Law, so what would the charge be?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgeib View Post
    Here is the rule from the ATF published NFA Handbook:

    nfWSlA2.jpg

    It clearly states that, with the exception of machine guns and suppressors, once you have removed the features making a weapon fall under the purview of the NFA, "it is no longer an NFA weapon."
    So if I put a 16" upper on my Colt 6933 it is no loner a registered SBR and I must reregister it put the 11.5" upper back on it?

    That contradicts everything I have ever been told by NFA branch.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  10. #70
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    The registry is to administer the tax. Your SBR is either tax paid or illegal.

    You didn’t un-pay the tax when you put a 16” upper on it. So you don’t possess an SBR that you didn’t pay tax on when you put the 11.5” back.

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