Railworker issues, lay them out for us.

[JediGuy]

Basically, the schedules you describe are better than most truckload drivers and equivalent to many LTL drivers, particularly newer drivers. I’m not unsympathetic. But railroads got in bed with the .gov over a century ago, as did then the worker unions. This is the price that is paid for demanding more back then. Super essential. Can’t shut down.

What is average pay for different level RR employees? Typically, market demands that a poor quality but needed job will have fewer applicants and demand higher pay to get what is needed.
Something isn’t working right here. My guess is that pay is higher than most have been willing to let go (walk away), so operations are not affected enough to actually consider improvements. Enough people walk away, things will change. Some trucking companies have figured this out.

[Coal Dragger]

Basically, the schedules you describe are better than most truckload drivers and equivalent to many LTL drivers, particularly newer drivers. I’m not unsympathetic. But railroads got in bed with the .gov over a century ago, as did then the worker unions. This is the price that is paid for demanding more back then. Super essential. Can’t shut down.

What is average pay for different level RR employees? Typically, market demands that a poor quality but needed job will have fewer applicants and demand higher pay to get what is needed.
Something isn’t working right here. My guess is that pay is higher than most have been willing to let go (walk away), so operations are not affected enough to actually consider improvements. Enough people walk away, things will change. Some trucking companies have figured this out.

Pay is tough to answer for you as an average. Different crafts pay different hourly rates, and train crews are usually paid based on mileage of the run. It’s safe to say that most are going to be making $75-$100K or so with exceptions on the lower and higher side. Figure senior employees will hold higher paying jobs, and will make more than I am guesstimating. Take home pay is lower than you might expect due to paying Tier 1 and Tier 2 Railroad Retirement, so figure about double what you would pay into SS each pay period.

Prior to the madness that is PSR, it was acceptable money vs inconvenience. That equation has changed, especially for newer employees who do not have much vacation or paid leave days (that are hard to get approved).

It is now to the point that my road cannot fill new hire conductor classes. The word is out about how people are treated, and not many want to do this shit under current conditions. I have been at this for almost 16 years and I have never observed staffing issues this bad. Not even 10 years ago new hire conductor classes would have a huge number of applicants for a handful of jobs. Now the RR’s literally can’t find people while offering sign on bonuses.

RR management doesn’t seem to understand the new reality, they share a similar mentality to HK Guns. Which is to say they’re miserable turds to work for and make no effort to adapt management style and policy to improve employee/employer relationships. They’re stuck in 2009 mentality where there are 300 people lined up for every job, when it’s 2022 and there’s 300 vacant jobs for every one applicant.

[glocktogo]

Pay is tough to answer for you as an average. Different crafts pay different hourly rates, and train crews are usually paid based on mileage of the run. It’s safe to say that most are going to be making $75-$100K or so with exceptions on the lower and higher side. Figure senior employees will hold higher paying jobs, and will make more than I am guesstimating. Take home pay is lower than you might expect due to paying Tier 1 and Tier 2 Railroad Retirement, so figure about double what you would pay into SS each pay period.

Prior to the madness that is PSR, it was acceptable money vs inconvenience. That equation has changed, especially for newer employees who do not have much vacation or paid leave days (that are hard to get approved).

It is now to the point that my road cannot fill new hire conductor classes. The word is out about how people are treated, and not many want to do this shit under current conditions. I have been at this for almost 16 years and I have never observed staffing issues this bad. Not even 10 years ago new hire conductor classes would have a huge number of applicants for a handful of jobs. Now the RR’s literally can’t find people while offering sign on bonuses.

RR management doesn’t seem to understand the new reality, they share a similar mentality to HK Guns. Which is to say they’re miserable turds to work for and make no effort to adapt management style and policy to improve employee/employer relationships. They’re stuck in 2009 mentality where there are 300 people lined up for every job, when it’s 2022 and there’s 300 vacant jobs for every one applicant.

Then walk away. You’re not an indentured servant and no one is holding a gun to your head.

Your unions are telling you they’re going to get you more paid time off, but what good will it do when you’re not allowed to take it? But hey, don’t worry. The most pro-union POTUS ever wouldn’t leave a union at the altar just because Warren Buffett turned his head, right?

[Coal Dragger]

I am halfway to retirement, it’s a bit late in the race to change horses and fortunately for me I have some seniority. Getting vacations and paid leave days approved is easier with seniority. Seniority determines who gets days off or vacation approved, if two guys out in for the same day the senior guy gets it. In two more years I will pick up my 4th week of vacation, and a couple of more paid leave days.

The harsh attendance policies hurt the young guys and gals the most, and they’re the ones the RR’s desperately need to attract and retain. I was once in their shoes, and try to look out for their interests too.

If you enjoy things like electricity, fuel, food, and other necessities that are hauled via rail you too need and want strong staffing and operational resilience at the nations RR’s. Right now a lot of our supply chain problems and some inflation can be laid right at the doorstep of management at the big class 1’s. Go read up on customer complaints about the state of the industry, or watch the most recent STB hearings.

We have major problems and management is intentionally ignoring their obligations as a common carrier in the interests of maximizing profit. Keep in mind most of the physical property at one point was pretty much given to what are now these big RR’s by the US government with the understanding that they had to maintain service standards. They’re now abusing that gift granted by prior generations, and screwing over customers and employees to pump up their stock prices and profits in the near term.

What concerns me, and should concern everyone is the long term consequences of short sighted management decisions they have greatly harmed the workforce, equipment, and plant of the nation’s freight RR’s. There is no resilience left in the system as it currently stands. We can’t even handle mild growth in traffic to support an economic recovery and ease supply chain issues. Now imagine we had a real emergency where the country needed the ability to rapidly ramp up the ability to move massive amounts of material via rail. Not too long ago we could have done it, but not anymore. Not even close.

That should scare the hell out of everyone.

[JediGuy]

Well, I’m going to tip my cards here and say that my opinion is the same as I had with GMC and Chrysler over a decade ago.

Someone will step in and manage better, unless you’re “too big to fail” or “too vital.” And when unions are involved, things get more complicated, because every needed change has to get approval from some **** who really doesn’t care about the worker or the company…just them dues.

The answer is clear: increase pay by $20,000 or fix management and union involvement. If you only do the first and not the last, it’s just kicking the can down the road. And a strike doesn’t change Option B. Failure does. Or a good leader. But most good leaders aren’t going to want to deal with the union.

[HMM]

I worked swing shift for 10 years, pulled 58 days in a row once and routinely made 30-40k in overtime each year. I took a 20k pay cut to get out of it and at that point I was pretty high on the seniority list. It sucked losing that money but it was the best thing I did. We had basically the same deal, our union couldn't strike. I did another stint in a group that had 24/7/365 guys but I was in a support role then, I was on straight days. Several times when I was in the parking garage I had to turn around and go back because of an issue. Luckily it was mostly just chained to my phone and being called all hours of the day and night, even on vacation I was working. That was 40hrs paid and all that extra time was a gift to the company. Luckily long lunches helped off set that a little. Only time I got away and totally unplugged was when we took a cruise but as soon as we ported on the way back I was on the phone for 2 hours as we were driving back home (wife was not happy). Luckily now, 24 years later I'm in a retirement gig. My phone rings maybe twice a year after hours but I have guys under me that handle the day to day stuff. I feel for y'all, especially on the long days and what they consider "off time". I've had crappy management and a crappy couple of years but I've also had good management when a crappy year happened. I much prefer good management, it makes the turd sandwich easier to go down. Sounds like the RR needs an overhaul starting at the top! My guys would all but hide a body for me and some would probably help me dig a hole. I am lucky to have a great relationship with them because I manage up and down better than the last couple of guys and when a crappy week or month happens, I'm right there with them in the trench.

My folks are union and I am no fan of the union (was in the IBEW for 10 years and hated them then too). In my experience the union protected the bottom feeders and that made it worse for everyone else. We all made the same base pay in the position when I was on swing shift which I hated, I want to be paid on my skills and abilities. Some laid out and were lazy as can be but they'd be the first one to file a grievance if they even felt like they were getting screwed. I'm sure unions were needed at some point but if they'd police their own a little better I think it would help or at least not have a no strike clause... Luckily I have no union issues but their rules hurt my folks more than it helps them.

I wanted out of my gig so bad that I spent every waking moment I could working on my degree. It took me all 10 years on shift work but I finished my undergrad and got a masters degree in-between crap loads of overtime. I was a zombie for much of that time but luckily I found a school that would let me do everything online which helped a ton. Plus a wife that was a great supporter of that goal.

[JediGuy]

I’m trying to remember the term for it…isn’t the generally used term for sleeping on the job a direct reference to how train engineers would trade off sleeping while both were supposed to be on duty? Been a while since I studied for the certification. Maybe “strawbedding” but that sounds odd to me.

[OutofBatt3ry]

I work for the same outfit as Coaldragger. What he said is spot on. I won’t add to that but tell you guys what the working conditions/pay are vs what the RR’s say.

First off time off. Most RR jobs for Engineers/Conductors (TY&E) do not have a schedule or days off. Some do like yard jobs or locals but for my terminal 80% of us work the road. That means for most of us we get on a train at point A and get off at point B. These runs can be anywhere from 6-12 hours with most being around 10 hours. Anything over 12 we can be on the train still but not operating it. That happens frequently with my record being 23 1/2 hours on duty. When we get to point B we must go to a hotel for a minimum of 10 hours before they can call us again. Frequently we are in the hotel 12-24 hours. Then you go home again. I’d say an average time away from home is 30-36 hours. These jobs are not scheduled and have no set days off. Due to bad train lineups from the carriers we often get surprised when we get called. Example it looks like you will work at 0800 but surprise your phone rings at 2200. Time at home can be anywhere from 12-40 hours but for the last three months my longest at home time was 17 hours. 14-15 is the norm.

Now until early this year those of us with no schedule or days off could take 2 weekends and 5 weekdays off a month which was 1-3 less than a 9-5 M-F worker but we made it work. Early this year my outfit came up with a scheme called Hi-Viz where we get 30 points. M-Th cost you two points. Fri-Sat is 4 and Sunday is 3. If you use those points you must work/be available 14 days straight to get 4 points back. If you get to zero you get reprimanded and go back to 15. Do that twice more and you’re fired. So I’m essence with still no days off and no schedule if I layoff more then 2-3 times a month I will be fired in a year.

The RR’s claim we can still take time off but it’s a lie. We that are left are working constantly exhausted. Most of us are on a train 200-240 hours a month with 150-200 in a hotel I guess. We are tired and upset and just want the ability to take reasonable time off.

They also claimed we make 130-160k a year in a few statement. We may have a few that make 130k but no where near the majority is making that much.

Basically most of us just want the ability to take a reasonable amount of time off for faimily stuff/doctors/being sick without getting fired. I would also love to see our train lineups more accurately reflected so we can better know when we will work.

There is so much more but I did just get off a train after an all night run and I’m tired. I apologize if there’s any spelling or grammar errors in here. I typed this up on my phone in a hotel room lol.

I was always fascinated by trains and have nothing but respect for those sticking it out; but at the end of the day, nope.

That's a terrible way to waste your life away, coming from a man who toils in a blue-collar employment.

[kerplode]

I was always fascinated by trains, and nothing but respect for those sticking it out, but at the end of the day, nope.

That's a terrible way to waste your life away, coming from a man who toils in a blue-collar employment.

A few months back, I got an email from a recruiting firm...They had two jobs in my area they were trying to fill. One was an Apprentice Signalman for BNSF and the other was Server at Appleby's. Thought to myself..."Well, Not much of a choice there...Definitely Appleby's."

It's kind of a shit deal all around. This was a railroad town forever, and I remember it being a really good gig back in the day. Now, all I hear is horror stories about it.

[JediGuy]

Maybe at this point I should say that I am not uncaring about rail workers’ plights. My younger sister’s boyfriend fell between two couplers and had his pelvis turned to mush. It’s rough, and I respect anyone who does hard work and works hard.

But I wonder if part of the issue with recruiting and retention isn’t that the job is horrible for the pay. Perhaps the world has just become accustomed to easier work for more pay.

I bet $500 I could get some African acquaintances to move here and kill it at those jobs with a grateful attitude.
That’s a reflection on American culture overall more than simply rail workers. By a bad company culture just makes things worse.