It's 2023, what role does the shotgun fill today?

[titsonritz]

My 1301 is set up similarly, and i love it. It's one of my favorite guns to shoot, and I think you will enjoy learning to run it.

I will say, after taking a tactical shotgun course, i ended up taking off my Aridus QDC sidesaddle, and went with the SKD Esstac velcro shotgun cards. They don't look as cool as the Aridus, but they are quicker to change out, and lower profile so they fit in AR mag pouches and they attach to velcro chest rigs. From a pure useability standpoint, i like them better. Not saying you need to change, just an observation.

Let us know how you like your setup when it's all together!

Yeah, I don't know about that...were you kicking them out like an AK mag? Personally, I found the Q-DC to be both faster and way more consistent in placement.

The Q-DC trays will also fit an AR mag pouch (see pic below). The chest rigs an OSOE shotgun micro rig. I remove two of the Velcro trays and carry a couple Q-DC trays.

[titsonritz]

Yea I would like to take a class to learn how to do those fast reloads. I can shoot the shit out of one, but reloading is the skill. Maybe I should do some 3 gun comps. Good luck brother, sure seems like your gearing up.

PB

Look at "violin reloading" and rolling thunder drill.

[B Cart]

Yeah, I don't know about that...were you kicking them out like an AK mag? Personally, I found the Q-DC to be both faster and way more consistent in placement.

I'm faster with the velcro cards, but definitely could be different for others, and the QDC is a consistent placement each time. I liked the Aridus, but it just seemed bulkier and heavier, and I found the shells were pretty tight in the QDC and harder to get out quickly. They are also $50 each, compared to $12 for the cards, which adds up quick if you want to have extras.

Definitely not knocking the QDC, as Aridus makes great gear, I've just preferred the Esstac cards so far personally.

[titsonritz]

I'm faster with the velcro cards, but definitely could be different for others, and the QDC is a consistent placement each time. I liked the Aridus, but it just seemed bulkier and heavier, and I found the shells were pretty tight in the QDC and harder to get out quickly. They are also $50 each, compared to $12 for the cards, which adds up quick if you want to have extras.

Definitely not knocking the QDC, as Aridus makes great gear, I've just preferred the Esstac cards so far personally.

There are definitely bulkier and heavier, they do loosen with use and Aridus sells a tool to expedite the process. And they are more costly, but don't stretch or wear out. Both have their pros and cons for sure.

[prepare]

A Case For Shotguns

For home defense a pistol is easy to carry and move around inside the home with, but it lacks that fight-ending punch. A rifle, such as an AR-15, is very familiar to most American gun owners, but .223 or similar calibers quite often require more than one hit to stop the threat. A properly setup shotgun brings a lot more lethality to the fight, but it has a low ammunition capacity compared to a standard capacity AR-15.

Is low ammo capacity a realistic concern? For protracted fire fights yes. For home defense probably not. At a minimum a shotgun will have a 5 shot magazine tube. By simply adding a velcro shotshell card to the receiver and the stock you now have 15 shells onboard.

The shotgun is a quite compelling argument for using it to defend your home. Pistol drills like the Bill Drill and Failure to Stop Drill exist because we understand that a pistol is often not able to stop the fight with just one shot. The same is true for the AR-15. It’s very common to see trainers teach that three, four or even five rounds on-target as a normal response to a lethal threat. This means that a 30 round magazine in an AR-15 (which is usually loaded to 28 rounds in the field) suddenly becomes a firearm that can engage 5-7 targets before it needs to be reloaded. Coincidentally, this is the magazine capacity of the typical tactical shogun. All of sudden, the ammunition gap between a defensive shotgun and a rifle or a pistol is considerably smaller, and using a shotgun as a home defense gun starts to make a lot of sense.

What about recoil? Is that a concern? Not if you learn how to manage it with recoil mitigation through proper technique (push/pull method) and load selection. Federal Flight Control is a low recoil load with a consistent tight pattern.

For interior use, the shotgun is NOT as deafening loud as a rifle caliber and in a home defense situation you’re most likely not going to have ear protection.

A properly setup shotgun will have good sights, a red dot, or both and a good weapon light.

To put it bluntly, properly performing buckshot is the most destructive thing you can lay on another living creature short of ordnance.

Below is a 18" Red Dot equipped 590A-1
Loaded with 8 Pellet Federal Flight Control
5 rounds in the tube
5 round on the receiver
5 rounds on the stock
Totaling 15 shots that equals 120 9mm size shots

Not the end all be all but still a very effective tool in its lane.

Click on each image for a larger view.

590-1.jpeg
590-2.jpeg

This can also be carried discreetly in and out a vehicle. For states where it's not permissible to carry a loaded long gun this can still be carried minus the ammo in the tube, retrieved, loaded and pressed into service in a very rapid manner.

The shotgun is king for large animals which happen to be in more places than one might think. Having a couple slugs on board makes a lot of sense too. Slugs extend the effective range and offer more penetration if/when needed.

[grizzman]

I don't know if the Esstac cards are the correct solution yet, but I should have a decision within a few weeks. The card's elastic grips the shells very tightly when new, so there's no reason to worry about shells falling out. The tightness makes removal somewhat difficult, but I fully expect the elastic to stretch out some.

I attached enough loop Velcro to the buttstock to allow for a 6 shell card on the right side of the 1301's stock and a 7 shell card on the receiver. The M4's longer stock allows for a 7 shot card to be installed without encroaching on my shooting grip. In this setup, I have 9 shells in the gun and 13 (or 14) attached to it. That gives me a total of 22 (or 23) shells at my immediate disposal. Accessible ammo capacity is certainly not going to be the reason I lose a home defense fire fight.

[titsonritz]

590-1.jpeg
590-2.jpeg

This can also be carried discreetly in and out a vehicle. For states where it's not permissible to carry a loaded long gun this can still be carried minus the ammo in the tube, retrieved, loaded and pressed into service in a very rapid manner.

Another option for discrete carry...
https://www.vangcomp.com/product/vcs-chair-cover/

[Todd.K]

A Case For Shotguns

I don’t want to sound like I’m picking on you but.

The reason to train to shoot until the threat stops is not just about “knockdownpower”. A big part of it is because in the real world bad guys don’t always stand still, you may also be moving, and stress can diminish your precision skills. In other words you might miss or miss center mass more often. The shotgun allows you to miss less before you have an ammo emergency.

I also think your reloading skills will be diminished under actual stress. There is a reason that 2 gun is much more popular that 3 gun in the amateur class. The supply of people who actually reload shotguns well under stress is far lower than the number of people who think they do.

Again, if you are comfortable with a shotgun from LE, hunting, or sport, use a shotgun for HD. If you just want to train on something to become competent for HD then the carbine will get you there faster with less training.

[prepare]

Here's a SBS version with the same characteristics. 14" barrel with 32.5" OAL

590-SBS.jpeg

[prepare]

I don’t want to sound like I’m picking on you but.

The reason to train to shoot until the threat stops is not just about “knockdownpower”. A big part of it is because in the real world bad guys don’t always stand still, you may also be moving, and stress can diminish your precision skills. In other words you might miss or miss center mass more often. The shotgun allows you to miss less before you have an ammo emergency.

I also think your reloading skills will be diminished under actual stress. There is a reason that 2 gun is much more popular that 3 gun in the amateur class. The supply of people who actually reload shotguns well under stress is far lower than the number of people who think they do.

Again, if you are comfortable with a shotgun from LE, hunting, or sport, use a shotgun for HD. If you just want to train on something to become competent for HD then the carbine will get you there faster with less training.

I appreciate your points. I'm not saying shotguns are better than rifles, just pointing out why they are still very good options especially for HD.