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Thread: Drug Decriminalization Behind Terrifying Cartel-Style Killings In California

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    By that logic Oregon should also be awash in bootleg liquor. I’ve never seen any or heard of any outside of hobbyists.
    https://taxfoundation.org/state-dist...ts-taxes-2021/
    That’s on top of the Federal tax.

    Potheads, and their apologists are generally full of shit. I was a lot more agnostic about pot before I was lied to, and the whole thing was thrown wide open with no plan for any enforcement of basic regulations.

    “We should treat marijuana like alcohol!”

    “Well, except for taxing it…”

    “And all that licensing and regulation on the manufacturers…”

    “Or rules that it can only be sold in specific, regulated stores…”

    I don’t think the scale is well known or understood outside of the area.
    https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stor...d-2-7-billion/

    https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stor...-rogue-valley/
    Excellent post ^
    ”New levels of dissimulation being reached for - and gained – in the faux journalism/gov spokesmen/shadowy ‘intelligence’ nexus which blends together the worst elements of controlled medias, puppet governments, & mafia-led ‘security’ forces, as our ‘post-reality’ era jets further and further away from any remotely real ‘events,’ authentic ‘leaders,’ & factual reporting.”

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    By that logic Oregon should also be awash in bootleg liquor. I’ve never seen any or heard of any outside of hobbyists.
    https://taxfoundation.org/state-dist...ts-taxes-2021/
    That’s on top of the Federal tax.

    Potheads, and their apologists are generally full of shit. I was a lot more agnostic about pot before I was lied to, and the whole thing was thrown wide open with no plan for any enforcement of basic regulations.

    “We should treat marijuana like alcohol!”

    “Well, except for taxing it…”

    “And all that licensing and regulation on the manufacturers…”

    “Or rules that it can only be sold in specific, regulated stores…”

    I don’t think the scale is well known or understood outside of the area.
    https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stor...d-2-7-billion/

    https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stor...-rogue-valley/

    Nothing in the above counters anything I and others wrote. Again, state by state vs fed (see additional in #12) is one issue that must be addressed, and the issue of how the state approaches it. The example of Canada again proves that fact, period.

    Let us return the absolute realities of basic econ and human behavior. I don't know the answers to these Qs as I do for CA: Is it less $ to purchase bootleg booze in OR vs legal sources? Is it less or $ to purchase weed legal or illegal?

    While not the only issue, driver, etc to be sure, it's the essential driver as to which generates the $, and end of the day, econ 101: Supply and demand and greed always wins.
    Last edited by WillBrink; 01-26-23 at 10:32.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    By that logic Oregon should also be awash in bootleg liquor. I’ve never seen any or heard of any outside of hobbyists.
    https://taxfoundation.org/state-dist...ts-taxes-2021/
    That’s on top of the Federal tax.

    Potheads, and their apologists are generally full of shit. I was a lot more agnostic about pot before I was lied to, and the whole thing was thrown wide open with no plan for any enforcement of basic regulations.

    “We should treat marijuana like alcohol!”

    “Well, except for taxing it…”

    “And all that licensing and regulation on the manufacturers…”

    “Or rules that it can only be sold in specific, regulated stores…”

    I don’t think the scale is well known or understood outside of the area.
    https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stor...d-2-7-billion/

    https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stor...-rogue-valley/
    Isn't Oregon a state that has at least one huge liquor store right at the state line with Washington because Washington's tax on alcohol is so high?
    ~Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
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  4. #24
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    Almost everything is cheaper in Oregon for people in Washington near the border, OR doesn’t have any sales tax. I live on the other side of the state, and our liquor taxes are so high it’s cheaper to pay the CA tax and their sales tax.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Dragger View Post
    Why is it surprising that a state largely governed by Mexicans for Mexicans, is turning into Mexico?
    mexican on mexican crime

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    What I know is LE and those with an agenda to perpetuate the (failed by any metric) war on drugs will claim cartel involvement when it's likley not, and what actual % involved, I don't know.
    Nope. You cannot box me in with the false binary of “failed war on drugs” or no regulation at all. I’m specifically talking about the near total failure of any regulation or enforcement that came with the legalization of growing.

    You know what keeps Beam from selling untaxed liquor out the back door? Regulations and enforcement.

    Feds are well known to take down stills, they are almost completely hands off marijuana enforcement.

    The part of looking at this from a purely economic perspective, that you conveniently skipped over, is that the illegal method must make enough MORE to offset the perceived RISK of getting caught. Thus the probability and severity of getting caught are significant economic factors.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    Nope. You cannot box me in with the false binary of “failed war on drugs” or no regulation at all. I’m specifically talking about the near total failure of any regulation or enforcement that came with the legalization of growing.

    You know what keeps Beam from selling untaxed liquor out the back door? Regulations and enforcement.

    Feds are well known to take down stills, they are almost completely hands off marijuana enforcement.

    The part of looking at this from a purely economic perspective, that you conveniently skipped over, is that the illegal method must make enough MORE to offset the perceived RISK of getting caught. Thus the probability and severity of getting caught are significant economic factors.
    And you literally don't realize you confirmed my points here. Two, focusing on the one part you feel makes a point, and removing the rest, is not a good look in terms of intellectual honesty. Laws/policy/regs vs enforcement there of, are two different issues and don't disprove nor alter anything I said.

    The $ is always the main driver. That does not = there are not other factors involved, as I indicated and you mention above.
    Last edited by WillBrink; 01-27-23 at 10:27.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    Nope. You cannot box me in with the false binary of “failed war on drugs” or no regulation at all. I’m specifically talking about the near total failure of any regulation or enforcement that came with the legalization of growing.

    You know what keeps Beam from selling untaxed liquor out the back door? Regulations and enforcement.

    Feds are well known to take down stills, they are almost completely hands off marijuana enforcement.
    One of the reasons they didn't understand that legalizing weed would have this effect is that none of our elected officals know a damned thing about business.
    No one thought for a moment that if they passed these laws and then had a State and local tax totalling 34% that no one would bootleg Weed?
    No Politicans saw the money and jumped on it like Crack Ho's.

    Alcohol has a hand in glove relationship with the regulations they work under. They are not onerous to them because they wrote the law and paid the cash necassary for a good working relationship with the Government. The same Government who they handed the Law to and they kindly passed for them.

    Actually when it comes to stills we could combine our efforts build a still and run 100 gallons at your house, then pack up the still and make a 100 gallons at my house then head over to Will's house, and well you can see where this is going.
    The thing about distilling alcohol fopr the most part is that it comes out tasting like fire and brimstone and sometimes it will blind or kill you.

    So there you go, Jim Beam doesn't sell Whiskey out the back door because they helped write their own Laws. You buy Jim Beam because it's a better tastin and safer product than you can make at home.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post

    State and local tax totalling 34% ...
    I don’t know where you guys are coming up with this. Oregon tax is 17% and is at sale. Local tax is limited to 3% more. We don’t have any sales tax to go onto that either, so it’s about twice the tax % I would pay on basketball if went to CA to buy.

    Compared to other sin taxed items it isn’t high.

    The problem is how legalization was implemented, before the rules or anyone to enforce them was put in place. It took several years for the local sheriff to be able to even check if a grow location had a license.

    If there are no rules that require the number of plants being grown is kept, or nobody ever inspects to check how many are grown, nobody has any idea how much of the crop went into the legal system and how much went into the back of a u-haul.

    Alcohol is taxed upfront, has regulations and inspections that make diversion easier to catch, and that disincentivizes Beam from selling out the back door.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    I don’t know where you guys are coming up with this. Oregon tax is 17% and is at sale. Local tax is limited to 3% more. We don’t have any sales tax to go onto that either, so it’s about twice the tax % I would pay on basketball if went to CA to buy.

    Compared to other sin taxed items it isn’t high.

    The problem is how legalization was implemented, before the rules or anyone to enforce them was put in place. It took several years for the local sheriff to be able to even check if a grow location had a license.

    If there are no rules that require the number of plants being grown is kept, or nobody ever inspects to check how many are grown, nobody has any idea how much of the crop went into the legal system and how much went into the back of a u-haul.

    Alcohol is taxed upfront, has regulations and inspections that make diversion easier to catch, and that disincentivizes Beam from selling out the back door.
    It started in California as a way to stabilize their State and local economies from the cost of the Socialism they've imposed.
    You might want to check that out a little closer, because there is a sin tax here and it is done at the Stae and local in Ca.
    The State in California takes 17%, localities bump that up another 17%, if your localities aren't charging more that's totally out of line with the way this was set up to work.
    This whole legalization thing was supposed to be a cash cow for the localities and it has been, but it has also bred an underground market.


    Now, the rules of economics take hold and the prices of dispencery weed is collapsing because of the tax.
    People figured out they were paying way to much, so prices drop legally and there goes the State and Local revenue.
    And these Ken and Barbie looking City Counsel Members can't figure out that they've shot themselves in their own behinds?

    All of this was brought about because;
    The Federal Government is too fractured to properly operate.
    The State and Local Government leaders got greedy and overly taxed the growers and sellers.
    People being people will find a way to get what they want, legal or bootleg, just works that way.
    People like being Outlaws and that thirty plants in your backyard will mean a nice Christmas and a Vacation for your family.
    Have you checked the price of licencing and property tax for agricultural puposes?

    If this was an honest business everyone would be in on it. So if it's legal in your local area, well everyones an Outlaw then aren't they?

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