True battle ready rifle???What is your choice?

[constructor]

Short of going the NFA/Tax Stamp route, there isn't really a difference between the two (B-R/civilian). Sure there are some older/former (actual) semiautomatic battle rifles out there like the M1 Garand, but for modern day "battle ready" use?... Hell - Most states have some form of legislation that restricts or otherwise limits their law abiding citizenry from obtaining or using anything that could be considered "battle ready" depending on your definition of the term.

If we're really talking about the average citizen (who has nothing), It would actually be better for them to go and purchase a semi-auto pistol and learn to maintain & use it, rather than for them to seek out a "battle ready" rifle, but that's for another discussion...

For me, "battle ready" is more about knowing how to go with whatever you've got, than knit-picking the details. I chose to go with an A4 clone because that is what I have the most experience with using & maintaining. Yes they are long & heavy, but I am used to the weight, and deadly accurate at using them within their effective range. Still unlike the average civilian, I also carry a Beretta M9A1 for close quarters/immediate response use, as well as a decent fighting knife should all else ever fail, but that's just me, and I wouldn't recommend that for the average civilian because:

1 - It is a heavy setup & takes a long time getting used to & becoming proficient with.
2 - It is a rather expensive (and ever increasingly rare) setup which most civilians either can't afford to purchase, or would have difficulty sourcing many of the components.
& lastly, it would be better for the average civilian (who has nothing) to only have to focus on one simple firearm, rather than having that focus split among multiple weapons/options.

MA2

Are you saying you think a Radical Arms is as good as a LMT, FN, KAC?

[MA2_Navy_Veteran]

Are you saying you think a Radical Arms is as good as a LMT, FN, KAC?

You might be... All I'm saying is that you need to define what you consider to be a "battle ready" rifle and whatever the hell "civilian grade" is supposed to imply before you start asking for opinions or comparisons over either.

& Thus far, (especially with your popcorn reference) it seems as if all you're really trying to do with this thread is stir up controversy. Good luck with that.

I'm out.
MA2

[constructor]

You might be... All I'm saying is that you need to define what you consider to be a "battle ready" rifle and whatever the hell "civilian grade" is supposed to imply before you start asking for opinions or comparisons over either.

& Thus far, (especially with your popcorn reference) it seems as if all you're really trying to do with this thread is stir up controversy. Good luck with that.

I'm out.
MA2

This was in the very first post "What (semi auto)rifles on the US market are truly battle ready" I didn't think it needed to be explained further.
Popcorn because people defend their choice of brands.
ETA-
If someone says they would grab a RRA, S&W or Springfield out of the box and use it, I'm not going to argue because it's their decision.
This is what I was hoping to get but, it could be any rifle from another country, The FAL/L1a1 is proven, the HKG3 and 93 are proven, the IWI x95 is proven etc.

C-grunt
C-grunt is offline Senior Member


" Id grab a good Milspec(ish) AR like a Colt, BCM, SOLGW, or Daniel Defense. Those are all proven fighting rifles with parts commonality with any spares I would likely find.

I was going to say a KAC SR15 as I believe they are a evolution of the AR and have good improvements. But in a hypothetical situation of the country being invaded, I would be worried about getting spare parts if my rifle were damaged. "

I've been a smith since 1980, an engineer for 25 years, owner of company manufacturing AR parts for 14 years. The bottom line is I like to get other peoples opinions, then I read/research. I have also been a member of several forums since 2007 so I know how things go and some disagreements lead to usable information.

[Bret]

This was in the very first post "What (semi auto)rifles on the US market are truly battle ready" I didn't think it needed to be explained further.

But you then went on to say "If you say "AK" or "AR" include the brand because some(90%) ARs and AKs are absolute crap." Since the majority of AK's in the US were built in actual military arsenal factories and Colt or better quality AR's make up more than 10% of those in the US, you do need to explain what you mean by "absolute crap" and "truly battle ready".

[constructor]

But you then went on to say "If you say "AK" or "AR" include the brand because some(90%) ARs and AKs are absolute crap." Since the majority of AK's in the US were built in actual military arsenal factories and Colt or better quality AR's make up more than 10% of those in the US, you do need to explain what you mean by "absolute crap" and "truly battle ready".

Several years ago I shot 3 gun in Colorado. The guy running the events is exFBI and set up the stages in more of a military type scenario instead of the short range cop shootout on the street type of thing.
The round count (minimum to finish if every shot hit)400 Rifle, 200 pistol, 75 shotgun(slug and buck mixed). Most of the new guys coming in could not finish the day due to rifle failures of some sort.
Barrels heating up, gas block slides forward making most ARs single shot. Extractors breaking, just plain choking because of lack of lube or the wrong kind. Mag and optics failures aren't a rifle problem but a lot of that happened also.
For a game gun sure you can get by with a stainless barrel but I know if you fire 820 rounds in a day rapid fire the barrels will fire check and start blowing chunks of lands out.
Guys show up with some brands of AKs and parts break, other brands were OK. Had one old Marine with a Garand(30-06) he took a beating but had no issues at all with the firearm and he knew how to shoot it. I wouldn't choose a Garand but he did. A few AUGs could not finish even though they were used by the Austrian army. Guys tried Saiga 12s, more malfunctions than I than I have ever seen with any shotgun.
If you can't finish a 1 day 3 gun shoot like that it isn't battle ready.
Sure you can go out with a sharpened broom stick but is it your choice of weapon? In the first post I said "YOUR CHOICE". If you chose a Radical Arms or Bear Creek I'm not going to argue with you, if you choose a $299 AK I'm not going to argue. You should notice I have not argued with any person who read the first post and replied only the ones that didn't understand the first post.
BTW I edited the first post again to show which OUT OF THE BOX ARs I THINK I WOULD TRUST

[1986s4]

Several years ago I shot 3 gun in Colorado. The guy running the events is exFBI and set up the stages in more of a military type scenario instead of the short range cop shootout on the street type of thing.
The round count (minimum to finish if every shot hit)400 Rifle, 200 pistol, 75 shotgun(slug and buck mixed). Most of the new guys coming in could not finish the day due to rifle failures of some sort.
Barrels heating up, gas block slides forward making most ARs single shot. Extractors breaking, just plain choking because of lack of lube or the wrong kind. Mag and optics failures aren't a rifle problem but a lot of that happened also.
For a game gun sure you can get by with a stainless barrel but I know if you fire 820 rounds in a day rapid fire the barrels will fire check and start blowing chunks of lands out.
Guys show up with some brands of AKs and parts break, other brands were OK. Had one old Marine with a Garand(30-06) he took a beating but had no issues at all with the firearm and he knew how to shoot it. I wouldn't choose a Garand but he did. A few AUGs could not finish even though they were used by the Austrian army. Guys tried Saiga 12s, more malfunctions than I than I have ever seen with any shotgun.
If you can't finish a 1 day 3 gun shoot like that it isn't battle ready.
Sure you can go out with a sharpened broom stick but is it your choice of weapon? In the first post I said "YOUR CHOICE".

I agree regarding any weapon that can't take the rigors of long training course or rigorous match. Many competitors modify their weapons with the latest disappointments, turning rock simple Glocks into over complicated single shots. Same with AR's and Ak's.
My choice is to keep things as close to original intent and configuration as possible. Proven base, proven components, etc. They tend to run. I've experienced driving rain and moon dust and zero failures.

[constructor]

I feels like this thing is getting off track and misunderstood by a few.
I'm not a gamer, I don't shoot 3 gun for points or to see my name on a list, I don't wear a shirt with sponsors names all over it. My firearms are not setup for competition, I don't use fancy brakes or 24" long shotgun tubes or quick draw holsters. I shoot 3 gun with many weapons because I like to shoot, see how the firearms run, to get familiar with them and for practice.

In post #33 I said this "I've been a smith since 1980, an engineer for 25 years, owner of company manufacturing AR parts for 14 years. The bottom line is I like to get other peoples opinions, then I read/research. I have also been a member of several forums since 2007 so I know how things go and some disagreements lead to usable information."

That is what I was looking for, a post that makes me want to go check out another firearm, research and possibly purchase to test. In the first post I said I've been shooting ARs for about 40 years, they are what I am use to shooting. I've shot a little of everything but most just don't feel right to me and I mean the whole package, the ergos, pointing, weight etc. I few months ago someone presented a case for the IWI X95, enough to make me take a long look at it. He said it was the best bullpup he had ever had his hands on. I'm not a bullpup guy, sticking the mag in my armpit just seems weird however after buying one he may be right, it's a little heavier than I like but I plan to shoot it a while and see if I can get use to it.
Around 2009 I started designing a rifle kind of based on the AR18/180. I wanted a rifle where I could fold the stock but a modernized 180. I had extrusions done for a monolithic upper and machined carriers similar to the 180 but fit the mono extrusion. Then my wife started embezzling from my business and I fired my shop manager so I had to take over programming the CNCs and other duties and never got back to the rifle. 12 years later Sig comes out with the MCX Spear light, exactly what I wanted and better than I could have done it, all I had to do was wait 12 years. If they turn out to be as reliable and durable as my DI ARs I may swap out several rifles.
Now that I have retired I have more time to play and test new platforms.
No one here has to answer, if you don't understand just try to forget this thread exist. If you are shooting the best thing since sliced bread and want to share then please do.

[sinister]

You want a recommendation for a battle rifle.

OK, pick up the military standard for the M4, M16, or the generic small arms acceptance guide (you can download them on .pdfs). See what inspections and functions checks a US GI weapon has to pass to be accepted into service.

I got 1200 Rock River select-fire carbines for my Iraqi commandos, complete with Daniel free float rails. DD hasn't sold complete guns to the military, but has sold uppers.

Of course individual hand-made guns can surpass the GI standard. Few outfits can mass-produce that product and pass the basic military acceptance standards at different price points.

Even within the military, for a rifle very close to another (the Knight M11 Sniper Rifle and the Army M110) the acceptance standard for USSOCOM can be different than for the Army, per the contract specs.

[constructor]

I read Boston T. Party's (Kenneth W. Royce) Gun Bible many years ago and it always stuck with me that a .308 battle rifle is probably the way to go. But for whatever reason I've always stuck with 5.56 and the M4. So, I guess my choice would be one of the DDM4 V7's that are in my safe equipped with an EXPS2 and G33 magnifier.

There is still that voice in the back of my head though that is telling me I should probably invest in something along the lines of an HK91 or SCAR 17.

Agree and I'm old so already have a few those things made to turn cover into concealment. The 91 is heavy but proven and will run forever.

[1986s4]

I feels like this thing is getting off track and misunderstood by a few.
I'm not a gamer, I don't shoot 3 gun for points or to see my name on a list, I don't wear a shirt with sponsors names all over it. My firearms are not setup for competition, I don't use fancy brakes or 24" long shotgun tubes or quick draw holsters. I shoot 3 gun with many weapons because I like to shoot, see how the firearms run, to get familiar with them and for practice.

In post #33 I said this "I've been a smith since 1980, an engineer for 25 years, owner of company manufacturing AR parts for 14 years. The bottom line is I like to get other peoples opinions, then I read/research. I have also been a member of several forums since 2007 so I know how things go and some disagreements lead to usable information."

That is what I was looking for, a post that makes me want to go check out another firearm, research and possibly purchase to test. In the first post I said I've been shooting ARs for about 40 years, they are what I am use to shooting. I've shot a little of everything but most just don't feel right to me and I mean the whole package, the ergos, pointing, weight etc. I few months ago someone presented a case for the IWI X95, enough to make me take a long look at it. He said it was the best bullpup he had ever had his hands on. I'm not a bullpup guy, sticking the mag in my armpit just seems weird however after buying one he may be right, it's a little heavier than I like but I plan to shoot it a while and see if I can get use to it.
Around 2009 I started designing a rifle kind of based on the AR18/180. I wanted a rifle where I could fold the stock but a modernized 180. I had extrusions done for a monolithic upper and machined carriers similar to the 180 but fit the mono extrusion. Then my wife started embezzling from my business and I fired my shop manager so I had to take over programming the CNCs and other duties and never got back to the rifle. 12 years later Sig comes out with the MCX Spear light, exactly what I wanted and better than I could have done it, all I had to do was wait 12 years. If they turn out to be as reliable and durable as my DI ARs I may swap out several rifles.
Now that I have retired I have more time to play and test new platforms.
No one here has to answer, if you don't understand just try to forget this thread exist. If you are shooting the best thing since sliced bread and want to share then please do.

OK, thanks for the clarification. I experience with a Ruger Mini, and a genuine Armalite AR 180. Both are gone and the only one I miss is the AR 180. Makes me want one for the new Brownells BRN 180's. But not enough to pull the trigger.. As to the rest; FN SCAR's, IWI, AUG, etc.. No personal experience. I've seen youtube tests of the BRN 180 and it did well but nothing long term.
I would like to see more testing of the BRN 180, what breaks first, what wears out the fastest, etc. Genuine rough, military rough, treatment.