Classic 9mm's: CZ 75 and Browning Hi-Power

[Slater]

Although their designs originated decades apart, they're both heavy, steel-framed handguns that have been manufactured in many different countries (probably with varying levels of QC).

Does one design stand out as having any superior qualities over the other? I've examined a Girsan P35 (Hi-Power clone) and a CZ-75 in a local store and I'm leaning slightly towards the CZ-75, but it's almost a toss-up.

[jsbhike]

I have always heard the HP doesn't hold up well to hotter ammo while simultaneously hearing Euro spec 9mm has always been typically hotter than US made stuff so?

Stock, neither will drop a mag free, but removing the HP mag disconnect or modifying/changing the 75 insert in the mag well will remedy thar.

I had one 75B that had a decent trigger pull, but developed something like trigger slap on reset over time. The second one I had started out with trigger slap , but still a decent pull. Unless you have a fairly long reach the DA pull on an original 75 is kind of pointless.

HP stock pull is mushy, but not terrible and the Cylinder and Slide fire control kits are pretty good

Trigger reset(if or until slap kicks in) is pretty much 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other.

Mag release and slide release aren't really different to me. MkII/III type safeties or aftermarket versions and 75 safeties are functionally equivalent. The old flat HP safety sucks.

I think the HP has a better feel and is easier to conceal.

I think the slide to frame fit of the 75 will hold up longer.

I don't think a HP is in any way unreliable(hollow points are fine with newer or modified old style feed ramps), but the 75B's I had would feed empties.

The HP might have slightly more holster options since Safariland has made ALS/SLS rigs for it as well as Radar from Europe making a rig that looks and functions like an SLS duty holster.

If you want a lanyard loop, the CZ is easy to install and where lanyard loops usually are positioned. The HP would require drilling the frame and the infinite loop is on a stud(loop and cut grips may be difficult to find) that is pressed in to the frame and requires soldering(original) or epoxying in place. May be annoying to a left hander in the original position(nottom rear of the frame on the mag release side unless you switch it to the ejection port side and cut the grip for it.

That's the only stuff coming to mind at the moment.

[gaijin]

^^ Spot on.

[AndyLate]

I have a very well worn MKII/III (transitional) Hi Power and a Magnum Research imported CZ75B.

The only considerations I would add to what jbshike said:
* It seems easier/cheaper to find quality magazines for the 75B.
* My personal Hi Power has sharp tang corners, and I think that is typical.
* Sights are easier to change on the 75B than most HPs.

As far as my experience with them:

The HP has been far and away the most trouble free. I have owned my MKII/MKIII HP for over 30 years, it was pretty salty when I bought it, and if it has ever failed to function I do not remember it.

My CZ75B was in very good condition when I bought it and was initially quite reliable, but did not remain so. Dirt/carbon collects under the 75B extractor and causes malfuctions. Its a common issue and the fix is to drive out the extractor retaining pin, clean the extractor and channel, and then re-assemble. Once I found this out and got my pistol running 100% again, I broke a firing pin. This is also a common issue. Dry firing will either break the firing pin or mangle the firing pin retaining pin.

The factory and aftermarket parts selection is greater for the CZ 75B. Especially if pistols like the Girsan and SA are not exact Hi Power copies.

Andy

P.S. Purely personal preference. I love Hi Powers, whether mirror blue, engraved, or silver-worn phosphate like mine. Its just a beautiful design with a ton of history.

[legumeofterror]

I have carried a CZ75 variant of some sort for 14 years, completed with them and have taken dozens of classes. The only failures I have experienced are worn out firing pin retaining pins and a broken firing pin, both at extremely high round counts and avoidable with regular maintenance. The CZ75 is a better pistol than the Hipower and has much better aftermarket support. Mine have been extremely reliable.

My Shadow 2 has ~20k rounds through it and I broke the firing pin as I very rarely clean it and it got dirty enough the firing pin stuck forward and the next round feeding bent it. The two compacts below have another ~10k between them and need to have each had the firing pin retainer replaced once. They of course all have been resprung a few times.

[Bret]

In my opinion, they're both good guns worth having. I have several of each.

While the CZ-75 is technically a double action pistol, it's effectively a single action pistol like the HiPower. There's no way to lower the hammer unless you want to pull the trigger and thumb the safety down. Assuming you accomplish this, then the first trigger pull will be double action. However, you can't put the safety on when the hammer is down. I prefer having the hammer back with the safety on to thumbing down the hammer and not being able to use the safety. BTW, CZ does make a decocker version, but it doesn't have a manual safety. Also, most CZ clones will allow the safety to be put on if the hammer is thumbed down.

[m4brian]

Might want to read this: https://hipowersandhandguns.com/ Stephen Camp left us a great site.

I own both and prefer the CZ 75, but respect the HP very much and if you are a cocked and locked guy its a great pistol.

Points of weakness? While i believe the CZ 75 is overall better for the modern shooter with many more aftermarket options, it still can break trigger return springs. I've replaced too many to count, but I dry fire a ton. The other issue MAY be the slide stop breaking, but these are only for guys who shoot tens of thousands of rounds. I doubt most owners will ever break one. I have NOT heard of people breaking FPs in the75 until today on this thread and I've been on the CZ Forum for decades.

The CZ is also a tad heavier and larger and the HP is a bit easier to carry. But... the Po1 and PCR are alloy framed viable options that make much better carry guns than the HP.

I also think for the average bubba the 75 is easier to shoot better. The grip tang is easier and more ergonomic. The tang on the HP can bite.

The 75 offers a real variation and restrike capability with its DA. It has modern versions with decockers both in steel and alloy frames. But... I have found decocking the manual safety guns to be easy and safe with some care. Keep in mind that if you are using a B model, as soon as you release the trigger the FPB precludes firing. Decocking by first placing the off hand thumb over the FP makes the process quite safe - IF you want to carry in DA.

While it can be argued that the HP is simpler and MIGHT last longer before a parts breakage, both are very reliable and will last generations.

[militarymoron]

Not too much to add to the advice above, but just an excuse to post a pic if that helps. While I love the history and nostalgia surrounding the BHP, I can't say I'm a huge fan of shooting a bone stock BHP with its smooth front and back straps. I felt it needed a bit of tweaking. Shown in the pic below is my stock BHP and my customized one, which has relatively subtle mods that make a big difference in the way it feels. Textured on the front and back straps, C&S components, all sharp edges 'dehorned' just a bit, reshaped tang, Novak sights etc. However, I think it's harder (and maybe more expensive) to get a BHP just the way I like it vs. a CZ with its huge aftermarket support for the DIY'er like me.

On the CZ75 SP01 below I changed out all the parts myself with CZcustom/CajunGunWorks converting it to single action (it's got an amazing trigger - feels very much like a 1911 now). It took a lot less effort (and no custom gunsmithing) to get it the way I wanted it (mostly). I'd say buy both, really (if they're both the 'basic' models).



I'll add this though - CZ has a .22LR conversion kit called the Kadet and it is friggin' awesome. I used it to teach my son to shoot. I have never had a malfunction with it, and it is very accurate (as accurate as my Buckmark). I know that there are aftermarket .22LR conversion kits for BHPs but they're not that common.

[czgunner]

I've tried both and own a MK3 that Don Williams worked over. I have small hands and prefer the trigger reach/distance on the Hi Power. To be fair, I struggle with the reach on every DA/SA pistol I've shot.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Bret]

Here's one that Don Williams did for me. Note that it has an aluminum frame. The frame had to first be nickel plated before it could be hard chromed.