British SAS and shotguns

[Slater]

I remember the 1970's and 80's when shotguns used to be carried in many patrol cars. In those days I'm not sure if door breaching was even widely practiced?

[SteyrAUG]

Didn't we just have a thread about the use of shotguns today? I seem to recall lots of people poo-pooing shotguns, which is idiodic.

I don't like them for primary HD because of limited magazine capacities and their tendency to cause tremendous property damage when fired in a home. Suppression options are generally useless.

So kinda big, seriously loud, a little heavy and reloads can be a PITA. But if I was a breacher on some "ninja seal" group, I wouldn't waste time doing a weapon transition, I'd just continue to F things up with my Benelli. But not my first choice as a defensive weapon.

[SteyrAUG]

I remember the 1970's and 80's when shotguns used to be carried in many patrol cars. In those days I'm not sure if door breaching was even widely practiced?

Nope, in the days of Adam 12, cops kicked doors. 870s and S&W Model 28s seemed to be the name of the game.

[SteyrAUG]

First surgical cric I did in the field was for a suicide gone wrong, tried to take his head off with a shotgun. Hell of a mess. Definitely the more gruesome trauma scenes, and I would throw IEDs/VBIEDs/explosives into that conversation.

A few years back, a guy on our Florida forum put a shotgun under his chin, blew half of his face off and survived. I can't even imagine what it must be like to think "things are so bad, it's time to check out" and then add that level of disability to your complicated existence.

[Slater]

The Ithaca 37 had quite a storied history. From a book I have on the history of this gun:

"Early in 1981, Ithaca Gun and the Los Angeles Police Revolver and Athletic Club established preliminary specifications for a commemorative gun to celebrate the 200th anniversary of the city of Los Angeles. The gun was sold only to members of the Los Angeles police force, and had a unique serial number range to correspond to the badge number of the officer buying the gun. The records indicate that about 1,300 guns were made. Shipments began during August 1982. Special serial numbers begin with LAPD 0001".

Wonder how many of this run are still around?

[prepare]

Shotguns are not as load as a unsuppressed AR.

As far as capacity for home defense very few HD situations are protracted firefights. That being said having 15 rounds on a shotgun is quite easy and manageable.

[SteyrAUG]

Shotguns are not as load as a unsuppressed AR.

As far as capacity for home defense very few HD situations are protracted firefights. That being said having 15 rounds on a shotgun is quite easy and manageable.

Depending upon setup, shotguns can be much louder than an unsuppressed AR. I have fired both 18" 12 ga. shotguns and 16" M4s indoors and you are absolutely, 100% off base. Shotguns are punishing indoors, especially hallways where they have two close walls to bounce sound off of.

15 round drums in NO WAY make a shotgun easy and manageable. High capacity shotgun magazines are the most PITA mag change I can think of, I can change a belt faster. But more importantly, a suppressed AR is always quieter than a shotgun and a M4 with a 30 round magazine is much easier to manage than most shotguns, especially when it comes to mounting weapon lights, RDS and things of that nature.

Nobody has any idea how many rounds are gonna be needed for a HD situation. You might need only 1 round from your handgun, but if you have two people in your home who are willing to gunfight with you, you might be doing mag changes.

[HKGuns]

Huh? I can't hear you? I just finished playin my '66 Pro Reverb on about 4, so that shotgun would be like shooting an M4 Supressed right now.

[T2C]

The Ithaca 37 had quite a storied history. From a book I have on the history of this gun:

"Early in 1981, Ithaca Gun and the Los Angeles Police Revolver and Athletic Club established preliminary specifications for a commemorative gun to celebrate the 200th anniversary of the city of Los Angeles. The gun was sold only to members of the Los Angeles police force, and had a unique serial number range to correspond to the badge number of the officer buying the gun. The records indicate that about 1,300 guns were made. Shipments began during August 1982. Special serial numbers begin with LAPD 0001".

Wonder how many of this run are still around?

We had some Ithaca shotguns in the armory when I was on active duty. I like the Ithaca, but ours had a considerable amount of wear and tear on them. They were replaced by the M870 and I thought it was a fine weapon.

Many on this site will disagree, but the shotgun is my first choice for self-defense inside of 25 yards. It's a versatile tool and highly effective.

Bravo Zulu to the men who used the shotgun effectively to dispatch terrorists.

[grizzman]

I agree that the SAS guy knew how to use his weapon, and got it done.

I don't think Prepare was thinking about some kind of drum magazine.

My HD shottys have 9 rounds in the gun and 13 attached to them on cards, for a total of of 22 available shells. I'll take 9 plus 13 00 BK over 30 rounds of 5.56 every day without hesitation.