British SAS and shotguns

[ThirdWatcher]

Nope, in the days of Adam 12, cops kicked doors. 870s and S&W Model 28s seemed to be the name of the game.

S&W M-28 and Winchester M-12 Riot Gun were issued to me in the Academy. Still have my 28 and a M-12 that was issued to a classmate (now serving in Valhalla). That M-12 (made in 1959) is still beautiful, blued steel and walnut...

[prepare]

Depending upon setup, shotguns can be much louder than an unsuppressed AR. I have fired both 18" 12 ga. shotguns and 16" M4s indoors and you are absolutely, 100% off base. Shotguns are punishing indoors, especially hallways where they have two close walls to bounce sound off of.

15 round drums in NO WAY make a shotgun easy and manageable. High capacity shotgun magazines are the most PITA mag change I can think of, I can change a belt faster. But more importantly, a suppressed AR is always quieter than a shotgun and a M4 with a 30 round magazine is much easier to manage than most shotguns, especially when it comes to mounting weapon lights, RDS and things of that nature.

Nobody has any idea how many rounds are gonna be needed for a HD situation. You might need only 1 round from your handgun, but if you have two people in your home who are willing to gunfight with you, you might be doing mag changes.

No drums.
5 in the tube
5 on the shell card/side saddle
5 on the shell card on the stock

[Disciple]

I'll take 9 plus 13 00 BK over 30 rounds of 5.56 every day without hesitation.

Not questioning the power of a 12 gauge, but why limit your 5.56 comparison to 30 rounds?

[SteyrAUG]

No drums.
5 in the tube
5 on the shell card/side saddle
5 on the shell card on the stock

Better setup, but still less than ideal.

[Averageman]

Better setup, but still less than ideal.

I'm reminded of shooting IDPA with a guy who used a revolver and he did very, very well.
I dunno, you can work as hard as you would like to to use whatever weapon you choose. But if I'm shooting the locks and hinges off, I would hope someone with an AR would be at my shoulder when I kick in the door.
I don't really want to go all "John Wick" on a room full of Terrorists with a shotgun; at my age it would be simply tedious and make all you youngsters look bad.

[SteyrAUG]

I'm reminded of shooting IDPA with a guy who used a revolver and he did very, very well.
I dunno, you can work as hard as you would like to to use whatever weapon you choose. But if I'm shooting the locks and hinges off, I would hope someone with an AR would be at my shoulder when I kick in the door.
I don't really want to go all "John Wick" on a room full of Terrorists with a shotgun; at my age it would be simply tedious and make all you youngsters look bad.

So for starters, even with a wheel gun, Jerry will still kick all our butts. We should just call it the Rule of Jerry. And I've seen some guys who can reload a shotty almost as fast as Jerry can speed load a revolver. But I can't do it to a level I feel is effective enough to make me abandon an AR carbine that I can do more efficient mag changes on.

But if somebody wants to run a shotty for HD, I have almost no opinion. People should choose what they are most comfortable with. In most cases a shotgun will be less than ideal for all the reasons mentioned, but if I had to defend my home with my Benelli entry with it's 14" barrel and 5 + 1 magazine capacity, I'm not gonna be "OMG I'm gonna die." There are simply platforms that I'd rather have.

[Johnny Rico]

There are simply platforms that I'd rather have.

Did you say have? I bet you already have them, and you actually meant to say use.

Wouldn't surprise me if you keep your kitted 6960 as your go-to, with an FN 249 ready to rock in your safe room in case things get serious.

[grizzman]

Not questioning the power of a 12 gauge, but why limit your 5.56 comparison to 30 rounds?

If I were to pick up the primary HD AR, I have ~30 rounds with which to work. If I pick up the primary HD M4, I have 22 rounds with which to work.

Sure, I could stuff another 30 round mag in a pocket. I could also put the 25 round bandolier (that's about 3 feet from the 12 gauge) filled with 00 BK and a few slugs over my shoulder.

[Slater]

Somewhere across this land, somebody's HD weapon is grandpa's old double barrel.

[SteyrAUG]

Did you say have? I bet you already have them, and you actually meant to say use.

Wouldn't surprise me if you keep your kitted 6960 as your go-to, with an FN 249 ready to rock in your safe room in case things get serious.

Actually my designated HD guns are Colt 6945, 6933, MP5A2, HK 33K, MP5k-PDW and various handguns. If it seems like it might go outdoors the stand bys are Colt 6920, 6920 EPR, Colt 6520, AUG A3 and a UMP.

I missed out on the 6960s but honestly the EPR fills the role nicely and don't have a 249.

The one I wish I had gotten but missed was a Colt 901, I thought they'd keep that one in production a bit longer than they did.