Waco: American Apocalypse

[SteyrAUG]

So first one I'm calling BS on is they were making grenades.

First obvious reason is nobody got fragged by grenades tossed out windows if if they had them, they have used them.

I'm willing to believe they attempted to manufacture grenades from dummy trainers, but anyone who knows anything about grenades and trainers knows it's far easier to start with a pipe bomb than with the body of a dummy grenade which has lots of problems most significant being a very thick body that would never fragment with the limited amount of explosive you might be able to pack in the channel.

I bet like a lot of people they imagined they could use the fuse setup from a Mk 18 smoke grenade, somehow weld the opening in the bottom shut and then just fill the body with some kind of explosive charge. Seen it attempted a couple times and basically you create a muzzle loader that fires the fuse housing out of the body of the dummy grenade and that's assuming you get some kind of workable setup that actually fires.

[Sidneyious]

Whatever went on in that place may have been very unethical.

Sending the government in to murder the shit out of people and kids is not cool.

[TexHill]

I started the series last night, so I don't have much to say about it yet. This two hour documentary on YouTube is very revealing. It shows federal agents shooting unarmed Davidians trying to escape the burning building.

[AKDoug]

I've been home sick all day and am almost done with it. I've developed a stronger opinion that there was some real dirtbags employed by the ATF/FBI and maybe a couple good guys. It was a completely mismanaged clown show.

[JediGuy]

…was…

Only thing I disagree with

[WillBrink]

Watched first two episodes, and so far it's very well done, info I didn't have, vids I had not seen. I'm feeling more in line with the ATF the more I'm watching. The real F up, was that they'd lost their element of surprise and should have called off the raid. The agent interviewed was clear at the time he recommended calling off the raid, and he was over ridden, and they walked right into a full on gun battle, for which they were not prepared for or really trained for at that level.

None of it needed to go down that way, someone assume that a large group of ATF agents in full ninja, they'd just give up. They were in complete shock that they, the gubment, were repelled and shut down. You can see it on their faces in the vids. From the firepower coming from the building, I'm amazed more agents were not killed.

Koresh was a POS and his followers brain dead morons. I feel for those children, amazed how his followers who survived still think the POS was God, while he used those kids, other's wives, etc for his own sick wants. He also made a straight up deal with the FBI to come out after they played his message, and he reneged saying God had told him to. F that guy. Death of those kids and everyone else is on him ultimately. The show has interviews with followers who survived, agents who where there, etc, so good stuff there that really gives you a sense of what they were all feeling/thinking at the time.

Will see how the next episodes deal with the ATF, FBI, etc deal with it, but so far, well done.

[Averageman]

And for the longest time, I didn't want to form an opinion on Waco because I didn't want to have any association with the likes of Koresh or McVeigh and neither one of them supported anything I believe in other than we all drink water and breathe air. But that doesn't make Reno or ATF at Waco the good guys either. Both of them seemed really good at killing kids because that somehow protects the rest of us and gives us freedom.

At least to me it comes down to,
Who called the Police in the First place and what did they want done?
I'm just suggesting that no one local called and asked the ATF to come down and lay down the law by burning and killing people. The Federal Government came in and did all that on it's own.
I live fairly local to where this all went down, I was in the motorpool when they took the Engineer Vehicles to knock the building down.
Do you know what We Knew about the Branch Dividians? Nothing...
Not a peep.
So how do you keep all that quiet to the locals, but the FBI, ATF and DOJ know all about it?

[WillBrink]

At least to me it comes down to,
Who called the Police in the First place and what did they want done?
I'm just suggesting that no one local called and asked the ATF to come down and lay down the law by burning and killing people. The Federal Government came in and did all that on it's own.
I live fairly local to where this all went down, I was in the motorpool when they took the Engineer Vehicles to knock the building down.
Do you know what We Knew about the Branch Dividians? Nothing...
Not a peep.
So how do you keep all that quiet to the locals, but the FBI, ATF and DOJ know all about it?

Supposedly the local sheriff requested ATF assistance. Have not tracked down accuracy of the claim, and if true, didn't know that meant truck loads of agents doing what they did, etc.

On burning people, even survivors who still support that POS Koresh indicate the fire started inside by followers using gasoline. Seen multiple interviews suggesting that one.

We may never know the truth of it all, and per usual, the gubment went full a$$ covering mode after the event, which didn't make them look on the up and up to those who witnessed a horrifying thing and wanted answers.

[eric0311]

I've been home sick all day and am almost done with it. I've developed a stronger opinion that there was some real dirtbags employed by the ATF/FBI and maybe a couple good guys. It was a completely mismanaged clown show.

*Are*

[Averageman]

Supposedly the local sheriff requested ATF assistance. Have not tracked down accuracy of the claim, and if true, didn't know that meant truck loads of agents doing what they did, etc.

On burning people, even survivors who still support that POS Koresh indicate the fire started inside by followers using gasoline. Seen multiple interviews suggesting that one.

We may never know the truth of it all, and per usual, the gubment went full a$$ covering mode after the event, which didn't make them look on the up and up to those who witnessed a horrifying thing and wanted answers.

That's the thing, this is the heart of the Baptist South and as far as I know, no one said Boo!
Even if I suspect something aint right, if this is a rural area and I call the Sherriff, that's who I want answering the call. Not the ATF.
If he was afraid to go out there and talk to them and called the ATF to carry his water, well that's a different subject. I'm pretty sure no one envisioned this going this far sideways.
There were a lot of guns out there the Davidians were shooters, has anyone ever gathered up and got a count on all the full auto guns that the Davidians had on hand?
All this of Koresh having his way with Children and other Mens wives never came out until the siege was well under way.

If they were a bunch of perverts, they were pretty darn quiet about it as far as I can tell.