FL Const Carry State Bill Passes

[Adrenaline_6]

The other aspect is how does this affect take home times when you buy a gun. With a CCW permit, there is no mandatory waiting period. I would think permitless carry doesn't get rid of the waiting period. So keeping the permit has that advantage.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Lots of Tennesseans talk "constitutional carry". That's not what we have.

I particularly like the way Tennessee Firearms Association expresses the below:

Excerpts-

Tennessee’s constitution has never had a provision that made clear that all citizens who could lawfully possess a firearm could carry it in public and that doing so would not be a crime. Indeed, laws in Tennessee have for more than 2 centuries made it a crime for citizens to carry firearms for personal protection or self-defense.

Tennessee has not had a constitutional provision nor a statutory structure where it simply was not a crime for an individual who was lawfully in possession of a firearm to carry it for self defense or for the purpose of being “armed”.

Tennessee’s statutory structure, its premise, is that it is a crime for anyone to carry any firearm with the intent to go armed. See, Tennessee Code Annotated § 39-17-1307(a)(1) (“A person commits an offense who carries, with the intent to go armed, a firearm or a club.”) That single sentence is what precludes Tennessee from being properly categorized as a “constitutional carry” state. Yet, many elected officials, many in law enforcement, many in the news and many 2nd Amendment supporters believe otherwise because they have been told otherwise.

Tennessee’s statutory structure only creates a collection of circumstances which would allow someone to assert to a jury that they are not guilty of the crime of carrying with intent to go armed because their actions fit one or more statutory “defenses” or “exceptions”.



If Bill Lee’s hallmark law is not real constitutional carry, what is it?

As noted above, the reason that Tennessee is not a true constitutional carry state is that we have a law in Tennessee that makes it a crime for any citizen to carry any firearm with the intent to go armed. See, Tennessee Code Annotated § 39-17-1307(a)(1).

Rather than delete the prohibition on carrying a firearm with the intent to go armed, the Governor’s law created a new subsection, “(g)”, which lists certain conditions that give rise to an “exception” to the criminal charge of carrying a firearm with intent to go armed if and only if all of those conditions are met. The choice to make this an “exception” is important because words in statutes do not always mean the same as the exact same word means in a dictionary.

The fact is that Bill Lee’s law is nothing more than a qualified exception to a criminal charge of carrying a firearm with the intent to go armed but that exception only applies to some people and then only if a list of conditions are satisfied. That exception is only required to be considered by the court system once the jury trial commences.

What are these qualified conditions that must be satisfied in order to avoid being charged with the crime of carrying a handgun with the intent to go armed?

There are at least 7 conditions contained in Bill Lee’s permitless carry law. These are found in Tennessee Code Annotated § 39-17-1307(g and h).


The person must be at least 21 years old (or for those in the military or honorably discharged from the military, at least 18 years old) (Note that a federal lawsuit has already been filed which asserts that the differential treatment of 18-20 year olds is a federal civil rights violation, see, Bassett v. Slatery);

The person must “lawfully” possess a “handgun” (you cannot carry a rifle, shotgun or a handgun with a barrel of 12 inches or more, see TCA § 39-11-106(a)(18), under the Governor’s law);

The person must be “in a place where the person is lawfully present” – the Legislative record is unclear on what this element is intended to accomplish other than being a basis for some category of criminal charge;

The person has never been convicted of the misdemeanor crime of stalking under TCA § 39-17-315 (note that this is a nonviolent misdemeanor in Tennessee and sets a precedent for restricting 2nd Amendment rights based on other nonviolent crimes);

The person has not had one or more DUI’s in the last 5 years or the person has not had two or more DUI’s in the last 10 years;

The person has never been “adjudicated as a mental defective, judicially committed to or hospitalized in a mental institution pursuant to title 33, or had a court appoint a conservator for the person by reason of a mental defect”; and

The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm by 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) as it existed on January 1, 2021.
All of these conditions must be met for the 2021 permitless carry exception to apply. It is the burden of the individual to prove that all of these qualifications are applicable in his or her circumstances.

Much more here: https://tennesseefirearms.com/2022/0...l-carry-state/

[AKDoug]

Yup. Keeping my CCW despite both states I live in being permitless carry. Maybe I'm wrong but aren't most "Constitutional carry" laws for residents only? So travelers gotta have a permit? Honestly I only pay attention to the reciprocal agreements. So I don't really know. Reciprocity basically covers the same states for me, plus some, so I haven't dug into it.

Either way, I'll be buried with my CCW just in case.

No. The true constitutional carry states allow non-residents to carry as well. As far as I know, the only state that has constitutional carry limited to residents only is North Dakota.

[AKDoug]

The other aspect is how does this affect take home times when you buy a gun. With a CCW permit, there is no mandatory waiting period. I would think permitless carry doesn't get rid of the waiting period. So keeping the permit has that advantage.

Is that a Florida thing? Plenty of states don't have waiting periods, regardless if they have constitutional carry or not.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I believe Florida has a waiting period. No waiting period in Tennessee but we do have background checks even if ya got a carry permit.

[Alex V]

Hope this comes to NC next. A democrat just defected to the right side. This adds a veto proof majority in the State House to the already veto proof majority in the State Senate.

The other aspect is how does this affect take home times when you buy a gun. With a CCW permit, there is no mandatory waiting period. I would think permitless carry doesn't get rid of the waiting period. So keeping the permit has that advantage.

I would think keeping the permit is a benefit if you travel as well. Though this makes a majority of states permit-less, there are still about 10 states which accept the FL permit but are not themselves constitutional carry. SC, NC, VA, DE, PA, CO, NM, MI, NV, NE

[Adrenaline_6]

Is that a Florida thing? Plenty of states don't have waiting periods, regardless if they have constitutional carry or not.

I believe Florida has a waiting period. No waiting period in Tennessee but we do have background checks even if ya got a carry permit.

Yes. Florida has a waiting period. Unless you have a CCW permit. Background check is also required which makes sense. That permit could have been revoked because you committed a felony or some other disqualification but you still have the CCW ID.

I would think keeping the permit is a benefit if you travel as well. Though this makes a majority of states permit-less, there are still about 10 states which accept the FL permit but are not themselves constitutional carry. SC, NC, VA, DE, PA, CO, NM, MI, NV, NE

Yes, that would be another benefit as well.