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Thread: 62gr M855 or 55gr M193: Must choose ONE or THE OTHER for 16" bbl 1:7 twist

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by w3453l View Post
    What would you recommend for shooting steel 200 yds and under? With probably most target ranges at about 50 yds.
    The heavier the bullet the better, but on the flip side, it's tough to sling nice OTMs at close range. 62 gr or heavier really reduces velocity and damage to the targets.

    Hand loading is best because I can to a hornady soft point 55 gr for cheap. For really close steel, Barnes makes a few lead free bullets (Reduced Ricochet) jacketed with frangible cores. Those are really fun, but expensive compared to regular bullets.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by w3453l View Post
    What would you recommend for shooting steel 200 yds and under? With probably most target ranges at about 50 yds.

    I have a few cases of Wold Gold Iíve been using for practice, but Iíve been looking at investing in some quality steel targets.
    Keep in mind that bulk 55gr .223 is not 193. There can be pretty big velocity differences, especially for the weaker ends of the 55gr stuff. Then if you add in shorter barrels, youíre already dropping more FPS so it may not be that big of a deal.


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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Keep in mind that bulk 55gr .223 is not 193. There can be pretty big velocity differences, especially for the weaker ends of the 55gr stuff. Then if you add in shorter barrels, you’re already dropping more FPS so it may not be that big of a deal.
    Good points. If I'm shooting a shorty, I don't mind running 55 gr FMJ. It's a balance of distance, bullet, and velocity.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

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    62gr M855 or 55gr M193: Must choose ONE or THE OTHER for 16" bbl 1:7 twist

    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    Agree with C-grunt. M193 type ammo is brutal on steel inside of 100 yards. I'd only run m193 if my maximum shooting distance was 400 yards or so. M193 is too powerful at short range, and too anemic at long range.
    Does this mean m193 is a good 100 yards, 200 yards, self defense round?
    Last edited by 202; 06-14-23 at 20:34.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    The heavier the bullet the better, but on the flip side, it's tough to sling nice OTMs at close range. 62 gr or heavier really reduces velocity and damage to the targets.

    Hand loading is best because I can to a hornady soft point 55 gr for cheap. For really close steel, Barnes makes a few lead free bullets (Reduced Ricochet) jacketed with frangible cores. Those are really fun, but expensive compared to regular bullets.
    Yeah I know I need to get into reloading; I have about 8 jugs of H335 sitting around with close to 10k CCI primers I bought years ago. I don’t have the time for it now, but also don’t want to sell cause I know I’ll eventually want to reload, and I won’t buy those components for the same prices I bought them originally.

    For the time being I’m just buying bulk training ammo and hence my question about using the commonly bought .223 “913” knock offs for shooting plates at closer ranges.

    I wish the the other stuff was cheaper. I have a case of 62 gr gold dots, but not the income to use that for training.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Keep in mind that bulk 55gr .223 is not 193. There can be pretty big velocity differences, especially for the weaker ends of the 55gr stuff. Then if you add in shorter barrels, you’re already dropping more FPS so it may not be that big of a deal.


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    Interesting, I’ve never chronographed any of my ammo but I could have sworn I saw Wolf Gold being mentioned as having very comparable velocity to m193? I can’t find any sources to back that up right now, and I really only buy it for training.

    Yup, agreed on the shorter barrels. I’m only shooting 11.5” barrels right now, and recently got pretty hooked on 12.5”. I’m debating just settling down on 12.5 and letting go of my 14.5’s. The only thing stopping me there is I know I’ll be moving back to TX and the landscape is definitely more wide open than where I am in NC right now.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Keep in mind that bulk 55gr .223 is not 193. There can be pretty big velocity differences, especially for the weaker ends of the 55gr stuff. Then if you add in shorter barrels, you’re already dropping more FPS so it may not be that big of a deal.


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    https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/...515258/?page=1

    According to Molon's testing, that statement is no longer strictly the case. Three of the four types tested met both the accuracy and velocity requirements.

    Even based on the 2010 tests, IMI and the Federal met the requirements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by w3453l View Post
    Interesting, I’ve never chronographed any of my ammo but I could have sworn I saw Wolf Gold being mentioned as having very comparable velocity to m193? I can’t find any sources to back that up right now, and I really only buy it for training.

    Yup, agreed on the shorter barrels. I’m only shooting 11.5” barrels right now, and recently got pretty hooked on 12.5”. I’m debating just settling down on 12.5 and letting go of my 14.5’s. The only thing stopping me there is I know I’ll be moving back to TX and the landscape is definitely more wide open than where I am in NC right now.
    Molon on 01/11/2016 tested WG and "The muzzle velocity for the 10-shot string of the Wolf Gold 55 grain FMJ ammunition was 3213 FPS with a standard deviation of 25 FPS. For comparison, IMI M193 had a muzzle velocity of 3274 FPS when fired from the same barrel, with a standard deviation of 18 FPS."

    The Vm for M193 should be around 3250 +/- 40 fps

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander View Post
    https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/...515258/?page=1

    According to Molon's testing, that statement is no longer strictly the case. Three of the four types tested met both the accuracy and velocity requirements.

    Even based on the 2010 tests, IMI and the Federal met the requirements.
    Yeah but those are marketed as 193 clones. Iím talking more about PMC Bronze, AE .223, and others that are bulk 55gr .223 instead of 5.56 like 193. I thought Wolf Gold fell into that category as well.


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  9. #129
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    62gr M855 or 55gr M193: Must choose ONE or THE OTHER for 16" bbl 1:7 twist

    Quote Originally Posted by lysander View Post
    Molon on 01/11/2016 tested WG and "The muzzle velocity for the 10-shot string of the Wolf Gold 55 grain FMJ ammunition was 3213 FPS with a standard deviation of 25 FPS. For comparison, IMI M193 had a muzzle velocity of 3274 FPS when fired from the same barrel, with a standard deviation of 18 FPS."

    The Vm for M193 should be around 3250 +/- 40 fps
    This is a good find and counter to what I thought I had seen so I appreciate the correction. Itís worth noting though, that his test barrel is a 20Ē just like most manufacturers, so most of us will be seeing a lot less, especially with SBRs.

    Iím still working off assumptions though, I havenít chronoíd any of the cheap stuff so the few unscientific notes I have from personal experience is mostly around 77gr stuff.


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    Last edited by Wake27; 06-15-23 at 07:26.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    It’s a shame that you even need to mention the above, but it is something that probably needs to be brought up on a regular basis. Every clown in the world is out shooting pine, water jugs, gel, beef jerky and elves while trying to talk like a pro about what something means for bullet construction and terminal performance when they have no actual knowledge or foundation in the matter.
    Another reason YouTube "Ballistic Tests" should be taken with a few ounces of salt . . .

    From an Army Wound Ballistics Lab report dealing with bullet behavior in gelatin tissue models:

    "Figure 2 shows the effects of temperature on the temporary cavity volume at 2000 microseconds after impact of the 2800 F/S bullet on the face of the 20% gelatin cylinder There were only small increases in the temporary cavity volumes as the temperatures increased from 0.5įC to 20.5įC However at 25įC a change of physical characteristics of the gelatin apparently began to occur so that the cavities were far larger at this temperature and above than at the lower temperatures."

    Last edited by lysander; 06-15-23 at 10:03.

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