62gr M855 or 55gr M193: Must choose ONE or THE OTHER for 16" bbl 1:7 twist

[GTF425]

Ballistic Resistance of Body Armor NIJ Standard-0101.06

What is back face deformation?l

Thank you.

I'm faculty at a public health university and work as both a SWAT medic and flight medic. The conventional wisdom in the tactical medic world is to consider the possibility of a pulmonary contusion/pneumothorax following a gunshot wound that strikes torso armor. Anecdotally, I have only treated two casualties with injuries isolated to their armor: one in Afghanistan in 2009 where a front ESAPI was struck, and the second was an LE officer shot twice in the soft armor from a .40 shooting FMJ. Both had broken ribs, and the Soldier did suffer from a pulmonary contusion. He still has the ESAPI, and I don't recall the backface being too terribly deformed. I'll try to track him down through my social circle and see if he'll send me pics of it.

I appreciate resources that can help expand my understanding of ballistic protection and, consequently, also helps improve the quality of my instruction.

[NQNPIII]

Thank you.

I'm faculty at a public health university and work as both a SWAT medic and flight medic. The conventional wisdom in the tactical medic world is to consider the possibility of a pulmonary contusion/pneumothorax following a gunshot wound that strikes torso armor. Anecdotally, I have only treated two casualties with injuries isolated to their armor: one in Afghanistan in 2009 where a front ESAPI was struck, and the second was an LE officer shot twice in the soft armor from a .40 shooting FMJ. Both had broken ribs, and the Soldier did suffer from a pulmonary contusion. He still has the ESAPI, and I don't recall the backface being too terribly deformed. I'll try to track him down through my social circle and see if he'll send me pics of it.

I appreciate resources that can help expand my understanding of ballistic protection and, consequently, also helps improve the quality of my instruction.

We are chasing red herrings, and going down rabbit holes. Quit trying to confuse us with facts. Internet posters don't like to hear anything else except for themselves. Everyone else is wrong. (sarcasm switch off.)

[GTF425]

We are chasing red herrings, and going down rabbit holes. Quit trying to confuse us with facts. Internet posters don't like to hear anything else except for themselves. Everyone else is wrong. (sarcasm switch off.)

I'll admit that I only have anecdotal, limited experience with patients struck in the armor. It wasn't very common in theater, and is fairly rare in my area. I do appreciate their input, given these guys have much more technical knowledge of armor than I do.

[WillBrink]

Thank you.

I'm faculty at a public health university and work as both a SWAT medic and flight medic. The conventional wisdom in the tactical medic world is to consider the possibility of a pulmonary contusion/pneumothorax following a gunshot wound that strikes torso armor. Anecdotally, I have only treated two casualties with injuries isolated to their armor: one in Afghanistan in 2009 where a front ESAPI was struck, and the second was an LE officer shot twice in the soft armor from a .40 shooting FMJ. Both had broken ribs, and the Soldier did suffer from a pulmonary contusion. He still has the ESAPI, and I don't recall the backface being too terribly deformed. I'll try to track him down through my social circle and see if he'll send me pics of it.

I appreciate resources that can help expand my understanding of ballistic protection and, consequently, also helps improve the quality of my instruction.

Force is force and physics is physics and BA greatly reduces likelihood of serous injury and death, but getting whacked in the sternum with a bat (as plate example) causing BFT or deformation caused by soft armor, can and does cause trauma. One reason soft armor is rated for pistol rnds is that even if the rifle rnd did not penetrate the armor (for sake of argument) the amount of deformation will cause serious injury or death. Conversely, people take pistol rnd to the plate and hardly notice it. Look at the deformation of the soft armor at 55s. That's gonna hurt!

[WillBrink]

With ballistics dummies:

[Hammer_Man]

What about 77 gr TMK projectiles? Would these be effective against bad guys with body armor, windshields, and space zombies?

[WillBrink]

What about 77 gr TMK projectiles? Would these be effective against bad guys with body armor, windshields, and space zombies?

I would think it depends on what level of BA they're wearing and where you hit them.

[AndyLate]

Ballistic effects with body armor confuses me. If an armor plate doesn't have significant backface deformation, will a shot to the chest with, say a 5.56, cause injury if we ignore "spall" and ricochets? The buttplate on a rifle has far less surface area and you can certainly fire a lightweight 5 56 with the butt on your chest without injury.

Andy

[WillBrink]

Ballistic effects with body armor confuses me. If an armor plate doesn't have significant backface deformation, will a shot to the chest with, say a 5.56, cause injury if we ignore "spall" and ricochets? The buttplate on a rifle has far less surface area and you can certainly fire a lightweight 5 56 with the butt on your chest without injury.

Andy

Per vid in #175, 5rnds of 5.56 to the plate and minor backface deformation (with that brand at least), so maybe, mild bruising/BFT, but they should still be in the fight. The mental shock of being shot must be a big factor to how someone responds too, which they discuss also.

That's my non SME take at least.

[Hammer_Man]

I would think it depends on what level of BA they're wearing and where you hit them.

I suppose you’re right. I only ask because PSA has 77 gr TMK, and 77 gr OTM ammo for about $0.60 a round. I was curious if the TMK has any advantage over OTM, particularly regarding barrier penetration.