62gr M855 or 55gr M193: Must choose ONE or THE OTHER for 16" bbl 1:7 twist

[Todd.K]

The idea that there is so much UHMW out there that it should drive ammo selection is pretty questionable. There are far too many ceramic plates out there to think M855 will make a difference if you go up against body armor.

All the barrel twist arguments and longer range stuff is just not relevant for putting up a case of ball ammo.

Buy a case of M193 so you don’t have any training/range limitations. Then work on a couple hundred rounds of something barrier blind, and training. Some training is far more likely to help you survive a gunfight than a basement full of ammo.

[Sidneyious]

I have 10.5-16 inch guns and I use almost exclusively m193.

So far all of it is lake city and igman.

[markm]

The idea that there is so much UHMW out there that it should drive ammo selection is pretty questionable. There are far too many ceramic plates out there to think M855 will make a difference if you go up against body armor.

All the barrel twist arguments and longer range stuff is just not relevant for putting up a case of ball ammo.

Buy a case of M193 so you don’t have any training/range limitations. Then work on a couple hundred rounds of something barrier blind, and training. Some training is far more likely to help you survive a gunfight than a basement full of ammo.

Valid points.

Once we get the ammo selection sorted out, we can discuss the best lube!!

[mack7.62]

Appears X-TAC has upped their game, PMC is now showing a MV of 3,100 fps, I likely bought the last bad lot at 2,920.

Attachment 70131

[Defaultmp3]

Appears X-TAC has upped their game, PMC is now showing a MV of 3,100 fps, I likely bought the last bad lot at 2,920.

Attachment 70131

3100 FPS is from a 20" barrel. 2920 FPS is from a 14.5".

[rocsteady]

Try a couple boxes of each first, then order a quantity. None of us knows what the hell your gun likes.

Heh heh. That last line makes me laugh because until now I've put my faith in .30 cal. Per your comments, and the comments of others, I guess I will "buy a box of both" to see if there's any noticable difference for my particular rifle before jumping in with both feet.



So it's not just me then. In A and B above you spell out exactly my connundrum. What I take away from your remarks and from the helpful comments of others here is this:

I need to expand my budget to include BOTH cartridges in order to accommodate doomsday, training and personal defense.

THAT'S THE ANSWER FOR ME.


What cartridge do you recommend for this? A particular bullet weight and shape? A particular manufacturer? Give me a starting point for further research.

Thanks

So this was good advice after all, maybe just asked a little bluntly for your tastes? I did get a little chuckle out of this though, so thanks for that to all invovled.

[rocsteady]

Try a couple boxes of each first, then order a quantity. None of us knows what the hell your gun likes.

Heh heh. That last line makes me laugh because until now I've put my faith in .30 cal. Per your comments, and the comments of others, I guess I will "buy a box of both" to see if there's any noticable difference for my particular rifle before jumping in with both feet.



So it's not just me then. In A and B above you spell out exactly my connundrum. What I take away from your remarks and from the helpful comments of others here is this:

I need to expand my budget to include BOTH cartridges in order to accommodate doomsday, training and personal defense.

THAT'S THE ANSWER FOR ME.


What cartridge do you recommend for this? A particular bullet weight and shape? A particular manufacturer? Give me a starting point for further research.

Thanks

Feel better now?

For anyone who isn't a jackass, I'm speaking in general terms, about a typical 16" barrel with a typical 1:7 twist.

I'm asking about comparative ballistic performance and accuracy between those two rounds in general. There are other factors beyond "what the hell my gun likes" such as the steel core and overpenetration.

So generally speaking, which one would YOU buy in light of the "modern concerns" listed above?

Sorry, forgot to include this in the quotes above

[Inkslinger]

Appears X-TAC has upped their game, PMC is now showing a MV of 3,100 fps, I likely bought the last bad lot at 2,920.

Attachment 70131

X-TAC has never felt underpowered to me. Bronze on the other hand is noticeably weaker. My stash is the IMI 77gr. Buy a case of either of your choices. Then start buying the 240 round packs of the IMI 77gr from Sgammo.com whenever you can part with $250. You’ll have a good stash of it before our country sinks into total anarchy.

[MSW]

XM193 or IMI M193 or Winchester Q3131, but i can’t vouch for current production. I still have South African battle packs of M193 for a rainy day with zombies.

But, I also don’t have to choose, since I already have that & others. Based on stories about M855 “ice pick wounds” of the listed choices, 55gr as-close-to-real M193.

ETA: back in the 1980s when PMC was $2.99/20 rounds, I shot it & was always amazed at how we found whole, intact projectiles laying near the targets vs the M193 (a friends dad in the National Guard obtained) which we only ever found fragments. I’ve always been biased against PMC since then, but have never chrono’d or done gel tests; I have chrono’d the above M193-ish ammo & they’re consistent.

[Molon]

Winchester Q3131, but i can’t vouch for current production.

Winchester Q3131 is some of the shittiest M193 that I've ever tested.






The bases of Winchester 55 grain FMJ bullets . . .





The current Winchester M193 being manufactured at Lake City is a different animal


Winchester M193





This lot of Winchester M193 is loaded in Lake City brass with a 2021 headstamp. The case-head stamp exhibits the octal station identifiers found on Lake City SCAMP machinery. The brass cases have the annealing iris still visible. The rounds are charged with ball powder.

The primer pockets are crimped, but do not have any sealant. The case mouths are also crimped, but also have no sealant.








The lot number for this lot of Winchester M193 is pictured below. The “WLC21” in the prefix of the lot number indicates that this lot of Winchester M193 was manufactured at Lake City in 2021 under Winchester “management.”





“The average of the mean radii of all targets of the sample cartridges, fired at 200 yards, shall not exceed 2.0 inches.”

These averages are from 10-shot groups fired from machine rested, bolt-actioned, heavy test barrels. All things being equal this specification equates to a mean radius of 1 inch at 100 yards (the distance at which I tested this ammunition).



Winchester M193


Three 10-shot groups of the Winchester M193 ammunition fired consecutively from the Lothar Walther barreled AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards had the following extreme spreads:

2.21”

2.65”

2.09”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 2.32”. I over-layed the three 10-shot groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius of the 30-shot composite group was 0.72”.


The smallest 10-shot group . . .




The 30-shot composite group . . .