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Thread: Federal ND55664 overruns

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Seems to be some kind of contract overrun or defect training ammo being dumped on the market. The main feature is it seems to be a non-bonded training analogue of the FBI ammo

    Features:

    Ideal for target practice and training
    Accurate and reliable
    Non-duty bonded training analog for LE duty ammo




    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1026091053?pid=981215


    Thank you to the "themonk" for excellent documentation in another thread:
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...45#post3101245






    To quote myself from the other thread I suspect this just an unbonded TBBC but Im not 100% sure, other opinions and observations are welcome, I also suspect this would make excellent budget defensive ammo if my suspicions are correct and this would perform similarly to Mk318 which basically a non-bonded TBBC.

    I feel like atleast a water jug test would be in order if someone has this ammo and is willing to do it.
    Since you invited other opinions, I worked at Federal for years. TBBC as you mentioned is a bonded bullet. When you say something is just an unbounded TBBC, you are passing disinformation. There is no such thing as an unbonded TBBC. TBBC is its own bullet. If a bullet isn’t bonded, it doesn’t make it an unbonded TBBC. It is a different round. On to the MK318. It is in no way related to the TBBC. It is a OTM barrier blind round. It is a BTHP. TBBC is not. Mk318 is has a hollow cavity with a solid bottom half made for penetration. TBBC is it own bullet. You are creating a little confusion by the way you are saying these other rounds are versions of the TBBC.
    Hunter of Gunmen 8541

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by indianalex01 View Post
    Since you invited other opinions, I worked at Federal for years. TBBC as you mentioned is a bonded bullet. When you say something is just an unbounded TBBC, you are passing disinformation. There is no such thing as an unbonded TBBC. TBBC is its own bullet. If a bullet isn’t bonded, it doesn’t make it an unbonded TBBC. It is a different round. On to the MK318. It is in no way related to the TBBC. It is a OTM barrier blind round. It is a BTHP. TBBC is not. Mk318 is has a hollow cavity with a solid bottom half made for penetration. TBBC is it own bullet. You are creating a little confusion by the way you are saying these other rounds are versions of the TBBC.
    Thanks for the info, pretty amazing that we would need to have a former Federal employee needing to clarify their product line since Federal is so forthcoming when describing whats actually in these factory seconds that we need to speculate on what projectile they are using.

    Also do you have any info on the history behind on the mk318 projectile lineage? Since the cutaway of the original SOST mk318 projectile shows alot in common with the Trophy bonded bear TIP line? Is it common lineage or just coincidence they share a resemblance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by indianalex01 View Post
    On to the MK318. It is in no way related to the TBBC.
    Since no response was provided, Ill let these pictures speak for themselves:





    Since we are speaking like Dr.Fauci I guess the relationship between these two rounds is just "disinformation" or "conspiracy theory".
    Last edited by vicious_cb; 05-12-24 at 01:47.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Since no response was provided, Ill let these pictures speak for themselves:





    Since we are speaking like Dr.Fauci I guess the relationship between these two rounds is just "disinformation" or "conspiracy theory".
    Again, you are wrong. TBBC 62gn (LE223T3) is not tipped and is a flat based bullet. Also it is bonded. MK318 is not bonded and has a Boat tail. As a matter of fact the Mk318 Mod1 doesn’t even have lead in it. Completely different bullets and how they perform. LE223T3 does not and was not made to frag. The M318 is made to frag. The TBBC you have pictured is not a 223 bullet.
    Last edited by indianalex01; 05-18-24 at 01:36.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Thanks for the info, pretty amazing that we would need to have a former Federal employee needing to clarify their product line since Federal is so forthcoming when describing whats actually in these factory seconds that we need to speculate on what projectile they are using.

    Also do you have any info on the history behind on the mk318 projectile lineage? Since the cutaway of the original SOST mk318 projectile shows alot in common with the Trophy bonded bear TIP line? Is it common lineage or just coincidence they share a resemblance?
    Most bullets with lead in them look similar. It’s what you don’t see. For example the Federal LE223T3 bullet is bonded. It holds together and and expands when it hits flesh. It’s made to shoot through glass and doors while still expanding. The Mk 318 Mod 0/1 are made to frag on impact creating massive wound channels. The solid copper shank penetrating deeply. The Mod 0 has lead in it. The Mod 1 (Silver nickel plated) has no lead at all. These are open tip match bullets. The bullets shown in another post are not the Federal LE223T3. They are a hunting load. The LE223T3 has a lead all the way to the tip and not a poly tip and or a hollow point. I am just trying to clarify some disinformation.

    https://usarmorment.com/223-remingto...se-p-3069.html

    https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/prod...leadt556tnb1nl
    Last edited by indianalex01; 05-18-24 at 12:03.
    Hunter of Gunmen 8541

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by indianalex01 View Post
    Most bullets with lead in them look similar. It’s what you don’t see. For example the Federal LE223T3 bullet is bonded. It holds together and and expands when it hits flesh. It’s made to shoot through glass and doors while still expanding. The Mk 318 Mod 0/1 are made to frag on impact creating massive wound channels. The solid copper shank penetrating deeply. The Mod 0 has lead in it. The Mod 1 (Silver nickel plated) has no lead at all. These are open tip match bullets. The bullets shown in another post are not the Federal LE223T3. They are a hunting load. The LE223T3 has a lead all the way to the tip and not a poly tip and or a hollow point. I am just trying to clarify some disinformation.

    https://usarmorment.com/223-remingto...se-p-3069.html

    https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/prod...leadt556tnb1nl
    Well we'll just agree to disagree then. My original supposition still stands that mk318 mod 0(not the nickle plated abortion mod 1) is a riff off the Trophy line in particular the Trophy Tipped line since its not a stretch that Federal who makes both would use an existing bullet design, repurpose it and make it economical by not bonding the core. Nor does your status as a former Federal employee merit any extra credibility to your statement since no evidence was provided other than your own option.

    Quote Originally Posted by indianalex01 View Post
    Again, you are wrong. TBBC 62gn (LE223T3) is not tipped and is a flat based bullet. Also it is bonded. MK318 is not bonded and has a Boat tail. As a matter of fact the Mk318 Mod1 doesn’t even have lead in it. Completely different bullets and how they perform. LE223T3 does not and was not made to frag. The M318 is made to frag. The TBBC you have pictured is not a 223 bullet.
    ?

    Just a reminder since, of course as a former Federal employee you would be highly familiar with their product line.


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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Well we'll just agree to disagree then. My original supposition still stands that mk318 mod 0(not the nickle plated abortion mod 1) is a riff off the Trophy line in particular the Trophy Tipped line since its not a stretch that Federal who makes both would use an existing bullet design, repurpose it and make it economical by not bonding the core. Nor does your status as a former Federal employee merit any extra credibility to your statement since no evidence was provided other than your own option.



    ?

    Just a reminder since, of course as a former Federal employee you would be highly familiar with their product line.


    He didn't say that TBBC was in .223, only that the picture you posted wasn't of a .223 bullet. I have to agree with him that the cut away of the bullets makes them look far less similar when you start looking at the details and less at "copper jacket and base, lead core."


    And what's your problem with Mk 318 Mod 1? By all accounts, it's a good round.
    It's f*****g great, putting holes in people, all the time, and it just puts 'em down mate, they drop like sacks of s**t when they go down with this.
    --British veteran of the Ukraine War, discussing the FN SCAR H.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-17 View Post
    He didn't say that TBBC was in .223, only that the picture you posted wasn't of a .223 bullet. I have to agree with him that the cut away of the bullets makes them look far less similar when you start looking at the details and less at "copper jacket and base, lead core."


    And what's your problem with Mk 318 Mod 1? By all accounts, it's a good round.
    Well Ill guess he'll have to take that up with the person who sectioned the bullet which by all means all sectioned pics are .223 bullets (source in the bottom right corner).

    Seems sectioned bullets are like rorschach test for the ammo nerds then, I seem to recall DocGKR stating something about the history of SOST and its relation to Trophy but since he's deleted a lot of posts I can't be sure.

    My problem with the Mod 1 is that it seems its impetus for development seems to be based on making a more environmentally friendly green bullet when by all accounts Mod 0 was a fantastic performer. Id rather not pay an extra "carbon tax" for a lead free bullet with a nickle plating with questionable effects on my barrel, which no one seems to have any data on.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Well Ill guess he'll have to take that up with the person who sectioned the bullet which by all means all sectioned pics are .223 bullets (source in the bottom right corner).

    Seems sectioned bullets are like rorschach test for the ammo nerds then, I seem to recall DocGKR stating something about the history of SOST and its relation to Trophy but since he's deleted a lot of posts I can't be sure.

    My problem with the Mod 1 is that it seems its impetus for development seems to be based on making a more environmentally friendly green bullet when by all accounts Mod 0 was a fantastic performer. Id rather not pay an extra "carbon tax" for a lead free bullet with a nickle plating with questionable effects on my barrel, which no one seems to have any data on.
    Not sure what the original provenance of the bullets are, but just comparing the two cutaway pictures of TBBC, there's a notable difference. The first sets of pictures show multiple relief cuts like Barnes bullets have, while the second one doesn't have anything other than the cannilure.

    As for Mod 1, you don't have any evidence for problems, can't find anyone making complaints, and are just assuming it is an "abortion" despite the fact that most reports indicate it performs as well if not better than Mod 0? OK. Good to know.
    It's f*****g great, putting holes in people, all the time, and it just puts 'em down mate, they drop like sacks of s**t when they go down with this.
    --British veteran of the Ukraine War, discussing the FN SCAR H.

  10. #20
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    Both (maybe there are more) versions of 318 kill the **** out of dudes. I also completely agree that there is lineage there. I do think that it was based on Trophy line projectiles, and not bonded because that costs money. There are probably other changes, and the phrasing “based on” is subject to semantic interpretation. But, I think there is basically no case to make that Federal didn’t use their experience in one project on another…that would make them completely incompetent, given that humans are kinda deer-sized.

    And there is precedent within ATK, also…the Fusion line has been marketed for both humans and deer for like forever, and sold in different boxes. Lets not confuse marketing with purpose, or engineering, or usefulness, or whatever. Marketing is just some gay thing that has to happen just to annoy people with real jobs. But Federal, especially, does like to adapt designs from deer to human targets, and vice-versa. And that’s not really disputable.
    Last edited by 1168; 06-09-24 at 15:32.

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