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Thread: MK12 optics discussion

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyjd75 View Post
    I just acquired my first MK12, which recently arrived from Centurion Arms. After some research and deliberation, and consideration of $ as well, my initial glass for this rifle is a Trijicon 2-10X36 FFP in Mrad. Most reviews of this scope are very positive, and I understand the negative aspects (not daylight bright, no parallax adjustment). The glass is very good, weight and size is reasonable, and I really like the reticle. I am an admitted FFP fan for sure. I like the idea of the Mk5 2-10 but when you figure in rings (35mm) as well as scope $, more than I wanted to initially invest. Maybe later.
    Update: First time to the range today with the MK12. In a nutshell, the Centurion Arms MK12 is a tack driver. Using Black Hills MK262 1-C it was literally putting repeated rounds through the same hole. Amazing accuracy. Also, perfect functioning. And, the Credo 2-10X36 proved very useable for its first time out. Impressed with both rifle and optic.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarshallDodge View Post
    @stickman. Starting a new thread so we don't muddy up the picture thread.

    I run a 1-8.5 LPVO on my 16" SR-15, and have shot it to 1000 yards, on full size silhouettes, using MK262/77 Nosler loads. Not an easy task but it's doable.

    I had a 4-16x Vortex HS-T mil/mil on my 18" MK12 Mod 1 style upper. That was a great setup and I liked the sleek lines of the smaller objective. The downside is that it was SFP and would drive me nuts not having the reticle scale to the magnification.

    As mentioned in the picture thread, I am putting together a Mod 0, and have a Nightforce 2.5-10 with the ARMS rings to make it look more correct, but again not FFP. More recently I picked up a 4-16x42 ATACR, with mil reticle and FFP, for when I want to shoot a little further.
    So what did you think of the NF 4-16X?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by constructor View Post
    So what did you think of the NF 4-16X?
    It is a fantastic optic. I still have not finished my Mk12 mod 0 and so the 4-16NF is sitting on the shelf. When I first picked it up, I put it on an 18" 223 bolt action and it did not disappoint. The ATACR came off the bolt gun when I received an 8-32 NXS in a trade.

    Another optic that I did not know much about until recently is the Sightron S-TAC 3-16x42. Sightron is well know in the benchrest and F-class community for making some top tier glass for reasonable money.

    Pros-
    Good glass for the money, can typically be found for around $500 on sale. My example was purchased lightly used for $320
    Made in the Philippines, not China
    Compact and weight is 24.8 oz, almost 6 oz less than the ATACR, but it is a 30mm tube rather than a 34mm.
    Parallax is from 10 yards to infinity, good for close work
    20.4 MRAD of adjustment, plenty for a DMR/SPR application, and the reticle has 10 MRAD in it.
    FFP and illuminated

    Cons-
    I have heard some complaints about the field of view. Personally it has not bothered me.
    After having locking turrets on my SMRS, the exposed turrets on other scopes make me a little nervous that they could get easily bumped. Not a big con but something to be mindful of on this scope.
    Some may want a christmas tree type reticle and that is not offered on these.

    Another scope that I was able to check out recently is the Leupold MK5HD 3.6-18x44. It was on a fellow shooters rifle, is a really nice compact design, with some neat features. Another model to check out when shopping for an optic if $2K is within your budget.
    "The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." John Steinbeck

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarshallDodge View Post
    It is a fantastic optic. I still have not finished my Mk12 mod 0 and so the 4-16NF is sitting on the shelf. When I first picked it up, I put it on an 18" 223 bolt action and it did not disappoint. The ATACR came off the bolt gun when I received an 8-32 NXS in a trade.

    Another optic that I did not know much about until recently is the Sightron S-TAC 3-16x42. Sightron is well know in the benchrest and F-class community for making some top tier glass for reasonable money.

    Pros-
    Good glass for the money, can typically be found for around $500 on sale. My example was purchased lightly used for $320
    Made in the Philippines, not China
    Compact and weight is 24.8 oz, almost 6 oz less than the ATACR, but it is a 30mm tube rather than a 34mm.
    Parallax is from 10 yards to infinity, good for close work
    20.4 MRAD of adjustment, plenty for a DMR/SPR application, and the reticle has 10 MRAD in it.
    FFP and illuminated

    Cons-
    I have heard some complaints about the field of view. Personally it has not bothered me.
    After having locking turrets on my SMRS, the exposed turrets on other scopes make me a little nervous that they could get easily bumped. Not a big con but something to be mindful of on this scope.
    Some may want a christmas tree type reticle and that is not offered on these.

    Another scope that I was able to check out recently is the Leupold MK5HD 3.6-18x44. It was on a fellow shooters rifle, is a really nice compact design, with some neat features. Another model to check out when shopping for an optic if $2K is within your budget.
    Not to rain on your parade via the Leupold MK5 3.6-18x44mm but Leupold still wants $500. more if you want that scope illuminated. Leupold still doesn't understand the market, and hasn't for more than 20 years......

  5. #25
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    I'm not feeling any rain, just throwing it out there as another option. There are a couple of Leupold scopes in my safe, target and hunting models, and they came on the guns when I bought them.

    When I bought my first Nightforce in the late 90s, it was a toss up between them and Leupold. The NF had more features for the same money so that is the direction I went and have never looked back.

  6. #26
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    Its very frustrating. No one makes a light weight mid-power scope under 20oz with a good reticle.

    The leupold mk3 4-12 would be good if it had a tree reticle like the pr2.

    My 3-18 is nice but 33oz. Does anyone make a 20oz or less optic with a tree and top end mag of 10-20x?

    Vortex lht 3-15, but FFP and ebr7 would alao be great.
    Last edited by MegademiC; 09-28-23 at 09:57.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegademiC View Post
    Its very frustrating. No one makes a light weight mid-power scope under 20oz with a good reticle.

    The leupold mk3 4-12 would be good if it had a tree reticle like the pr2.

    My 3-18 is nice but 33oz. Does anyone make a 20oz or less optic with a tree and top end mag of 10-20x?
    Short answer No. Nobody makes a sub 20 oz with an Xmas tree reticle and a top end of 10-20x.

    Weight wise, only 2, but both are SFP and no Xmas Tree, and the Nightforce is 20.5 oz:

    https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-razo...le-HSR-5i~MRAD

    https://www.nightforceoptics.com/rif...10x42-compact/


    FFP and Xmas Tree Reticles in your desired power range exist, but all are over 20 oz.

    Trijicon Credo 2-10x36mm 23 oz
    PA GLx 2.5-10x44mm 22.5 oz
    PA GLx 4-16x50mm 23.5 oz
    Athlon Helos 2-12x42 25.4 oz
    Athlon Helos 4-20x50mm 27.6 oz
    Nightforce 2.5-20x50mm 28.3 oz
    Vortex Viper PST 3-15x44mm 28.1 oz

    There is also several Leupold scopes that fit, but since they basically charge an extra $500. per scope just for illumination vs non-illuminated models I don't find them at all desirable. You may however.

    There may be others but these are all I can think of offhand.
    Last edited by BobinNC; 09-28-23 at 10:24.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    ^Definitely agree.
    Although Strelok can give you info on what bullet/velocity keys with BDC reticle sub-tensions on a lot of scopes; it has to be proven in the field.
    Itís a fools errand to trust data without verifying.
    I have a few BDC scopes, but none are useable much last 300 yds.
    What target size are we talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by MegademiC View Post
    Yeah, you always need to true up the data. "Published b.c." will get you close, but IME, you have to refine it if you want to make 1st rd hits at distance consistently..
    yeah, the key is truing it up at distance. If the trajectory doesnít perfectly match drops, say you zero it at 200 and its off by 2 minutes low at 600, Iíd rather it be spot on at 600 and 2 minutes high at 200. Of course, it helps to have a combo that matches fairly closely.
    RLTW

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Sanchez
    All I do is eat ass and sixty-nine Nintendos, bro. Everyday.
    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself. I have no idea what we sell, other than CLP and training. I receive no income from sale of hard goods.

  9. #29
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    I personally don't need a tree reticle to shoot to 600yds. So, I really like the SFP Leupold VX5 and VX6 lines for great glass and 20 once scopes. The CDS dials work really good if time allows to dial. It would be nice to have some wind dots for 10mph, but a person is 18" shoulder to shoulder typically and if one keeps that in mind with established wind corrections for 5-10mph, hold offs aren't terrible. The VX5HD 3-15x44 HDMR would be the cat's meow too. Mil hash reticle at 15X and the 15X sight picture does not dim at max power on these VX5&6 lines.
    Last edited by Gargoyle; 09-28-23 at 17:43.
    KISS

  10. #30
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    If you dial for elevation a Coniferous tree reticle is not needed. If you hold for elevation and windage, good luck without one at more than 600 yards in windy conditions.
    Last edited by grizzman; 09-28-23 at 20:00.

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