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  1. #1
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    MK12 optics discussion

    @stickman. Starting a new thread so we don't muddy up the picture thread.

    I run a 1-8.5 LPVO on my 16" SR-15, and have shot it to 1000 yards, on full size silhouettes, using MK262/77 Nosler loads. Not an easy task but it's doable.

    I had a 4-16x Vortex HS-T mil/mil on my 18" MK12 Mod 1 style upper. That was a great setup and I liked the sleek lines of the smaller objective. The downside is that it was SFP and would drive me nuts not having the reticle scale to the magnification.

    As mentioned in the picture thread, I am putting together a Mod 0, and have a Nightforce 2.5-10 with the ARMS rings to make it look more correct, but again not FFP. More recently I picked up a 4-16x42 ATACR, with mil reticle and FFP, for when I want to shoot a little further.
    Last edited by MarshallDodge; 05-31-23 at 14:12.

  2. #2
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    I'm kicking around a few ideas. The MK12 using a 2.5-10 was pretty darn effective, but regardless of how high speed they were, they weren't using the same selection of optics which I have currently (better and worse). The 1-10 Vortex Razor seems like it would cover the original intent of that weapon platform pretty nicely. However, I'm not sure that I really care what the original intent was when I won't be using the same optics. That brings me to a few different thoughts.

    First idea, is to pull my 4-16 FFP Vortex and use that, but it sits pretty happily on my KAC LPR shown below. I know people will comment saying that the LPR deserves nicer glass, but this scope does well on this and I have no complaints.








    I also have a free Trijicon 3-9x40 illuminated which needs a home, but it doesn't really seem to jive with the entire MK12ish feel. I pulled it off the below while I rebuild that MK12 cut down 16" barrel into something else. While this might not be my first choice, it is a nice clean piece of glass... and it isn't currently spoken for by any other weapons. That might be enough to make it the winner.

    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  3. #3
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    I've got this Trijicon 1-6, but I really don't feel like 6x is enough of anything to target ID or shoot out far enough. I need to up those rookie 6x numbers up, but like the other Trijicons I own, it is a nice sharp piece of glass...

    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  4. #4
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    I should have started out my post showing this weapon, as this is the one I'm talking about setting up with an optic. Its hard to complain about this setup the way it is, but there is a part of me which wants to make it different or better. There is also a large part of me that wants to save the Vortex 1-10s for 308 projects which are upcoming.

    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  5. #5
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    https://youtu.be/uyDZvxSZ5Cg

    When I was looking for an optic for my 16" I was looking at anything from $600-2500nf) and after 2 months of research I did go with the glx 2.5-10.

    I really didn't want to give my money to them but damnit the fact that the illumination sucks it did everything I needed and didn't have an extra grand on the price tag for shit.

    I was almost wanting to get a night force but did some reading and no thanks.

    I didn't make my choice on the above video but it was a help in the right direction.
    .I also watched a lot of c_does videos in addition to reading.

    The 3-9 is dead and an lpvo on a "dmr" is stupid.
    I remember reading a post somewhere I forget that went on about how scopes work with a lot of math way above my head about why an lpvo should be 1-4 and a 1-6 could be acceptable if you don't mind reduced performance at max zoom.

    To make a 1-10 really work you need to step out of the "short dot footprint".

    As much as I want a legit mk12 this is as close as I will get.
    The concept is definitely over though for magnification and I don't have a compromise for the low end.

    Somewhere in here is a discussion about the spr/mk12 scope concept.
    It's still a good listen if you will but Brock goes on a tangent about scopes for this ranged ar15 in 223/556.

    https://www.youtube.com/live/IoV5trMN5W0?feature=share

  6. #6
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    I donít have any pics with the scope mounted on my Mk18 Mod 1 (KAC Lower, KAC handguard, Geissele trigger, Rainier Arms Ultramatch 18Ē barrelónot clone correct but my version) but on top currently sits a 3.5-18 Eotech Vudu FFP. It works well for the gun but definitely doesnít fit the OG Mk12 profile. It is a large scope for the gun but it is what I had around and I needed glass for it.
    ETC (SW/AW), USN (1998-2008)
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidneyious View Post
    https://youtu.be/uyDZvxSZ5Cg

    When I was looking for an optic for my 16" I was looking at anything from $600-2500nf) and after 2 months of research I did go with the glx 2.5-10.

    I really didn't want to give my money to them but damnit the fact that the illumination sucks it did everything I needed and didn't have an extra grand on the price tag for shit.


    The 3-9 is dead and an lpvo on a "dmr" is stupid.

    I remember reading a post somewhere I forget that went on about how scopes work with a lot of math way above my head about why an lpvo should be 1-4 and a 1-6 could be acceptable if you don't mind reduced performance at max zoom.

    To make a 1-10 really work you need to step out of the "short dot footprint".

    As much as I want a legit mk12 this is as close as I will get.
    The concept is definitely over though for magnification and I don't have a compromise for the low end.

    Somewhere in here is a discussion about the spr/mk12 scope concept.
    It's still a good listen if you will but Brock goes on a tangent about scopes for this ranged ar15 in 223/556.

    https://www.youtube.com/live/IoV5trMN5W0?feature=share

    I hadn't thought about the GLx 2.5-10, thought I have looked at it and liked the overall package it seems to provide.

    Regarding the 3-9... I'm not sure about being dead, as they are still as effect now as when they were first produced. When I think 3-9, I do tend to think more in the vein of hunting, but that doesn't mean it won't work. I also have a few different platforms that I need to throw optics on, so that 3-9 will end up on something or other.

    I agree that a LPVO comes up short in a areas, but as mentioned above, the optics need to go on something. I still lean towards the 1-10s for my 16" 308 guns, but I may toss a 1-6 on one. The Razor lineup is good clean glass, but its a matter of putting the right glass on the right gun.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  8. #8
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    My assessment of the PA GLx 2.5-10x44mm as a DMR type scope is unfavorable for the following reasons:

    First the reticle is more of a LVPO Type and unsuitable for long range work. For most LR shooting you dial for elevation and hold for wind. The GLx reticle however has no wind holds on it's base line.
    Second, the field of view is very small at 36' @ 100 yds.
    Third the eye relief is very short at 2.8"

    On the plus side, the turrets are excellent, the weight @ 22.5 oz is outstanding, it's adjustment range is excellent @37 Mils and it does have side PA. Cost is in the $750. range.

    The Trijcon Credo 2-10x36mm is it's prime competitor.

    It has a reticle suitable for LR shooting, weight of 23 oz., field of view of 50'@100 yds, eye relief of 3.4 to 3.9", 27 Mils of elevation, and a cost of around $1000.

    The Credo lacks PA adjustment, and it's turrets aren't as good as the GLx though they are serviceable.

    We can argue about how much side PA means on a scope that is not meant for shooting small groups, but in reality neither the PA nor the Credo would be my choice for shooting sub MOA on paper targets.

    Shooting fast and accurately on a two way range is more their forte and both have strengths and weaknesses in that arena.

    Other choices like the Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 are worth a look, but at nearly 27 oz it is too much for too little.

    Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x42mm has all good features except weight and being made in China. But it is the cheapest of the MPVO's.

    There are really not any more MVPO's to consider, as everything else is either SPF, or bigger, heavier, and/or more expensive.

    All this is IMHO and YMMV.
    Last edited by BobinNC; 06-04-23 at 17:49.

  9. #9
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    I think that MOD0 PRI handguard really limits you visually to a period correct Leupold and ARMS rings...

    My supposedly very correct MOD1 MSTN upper has a Leupold M3 which was as close I could get to the real SPR optic back in the day, but I couldn't bring myself to use ARMS rings.
    I really want to put something more powerful on it but it just wouldn't look right no matter how great it shoots...

    Good Luck Stick!

    Dennis.


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  10. #10
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    I think the new Leupold Mk5 2-10 could be an outstanding SPR scope. Smaller footprint but still had a 10x upper magnification range for distance shots. Still has an adjustable parallax for precision at range. Not horribly expensive.

    The 3.6-18 Mk5 would be another good option if you want more magnification.

    I have the 5-25 Mk5 on my custom 308 bolt gun. It really is a hell of a scope for the money. Is it as good as my 7-35 ATACR? No. But it was literally half the price.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
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