Four Dead in Private Plane Crash.

**AKDoug** · 06-05-23, 23:39

Originally Posted by B Cart

I'm not a pilot or expert on planes, but they do seem to crash alot...

That's like saying Ford F-150's crash a lot. They do because there is a bunch of them out there. In the small general aviation world Cessna has produced a multiple more planes than it's competitors, Piper is the only one close in the American market.

The Citation family has been around for 50 years. In an AOPA safety report in 2018, it beats it's competitors in accidents per 100 aircraft and fatalities per 100 aircraft. In the same report there have been 99 Citation accidents, 24% of them with fatalities. 66 of those accidents were pilot error, 11 were mechanical with no fatalities, and 22 were "unknown". 12% of accidents being mechanical is ahead of the general aviation statistic of 15%.

It's a damn safe airplane all considered.

I'm willing to bet it was a pressurization issue and that it likely ran out of fuel while on autopilot. It would have also been possible for the adult females to attempt cell phone calls even if they didn't know how to use the aircraft radio or fly the plane. My guess is they all went to sleep and never woke up.

**Adrenaline_6** · 06-06-23, 09:37

From what I remember, the Payne Stewart incident was due to rapid depressurization. At that altitude, the pilots had seconds to get oxygen on or it was too late and were incapacitated due to hypoxia. Didn't a fighter pilot get eyes on and see the windows all fogged up? It eventually ran out of fuel and crashed.

Flying a plane isn't all that hard. Landing one, depending on the aircraft is the "hard part".

**Sam** · 06-06-23, 09:39

Originally Posted by Adrenaline_6

From what I remember, the Payne Stewart incident was due to rapid depressurization. At that altitude, the pilots had seconds to get oxygen on or it was too late and were incapacitated due to hypoxia. Didn't a fighter pilot get eyes on and see the windows all fogged up? It eventually ran out of fuel and crashed.

Link attached in my post described the whole story.

**ubet** · 06-06-23, 11:14

I’m thinking they went hypoxic. Two pilots in the front, they’d both have to be unconscious. I haven’t followed it or heard much about it. Other than no coms and at altitude, my guess catastrophic depressurization, inducing hypoxia. At 35k’ you only have a few seconds before ira lightslights out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**ubet** · 06-06-23, 11:17

Originally Posted by ABNAK

If it was a depressurization then everyone is screwed. Having said that, if I was on an aircraft that had a disabled pilot (as in unable to fly, not a paraplegic or something) I would make damn sure I at least tried to fly the damn thing using the radio and coaches as a guide. It would be hard not to panic but I'll be damned if I didn't give it a try......you're gonna die for sure if you do nothing and curl up in a ball. Might die anyway but at least give it a whirl and you just might make it.

If it was a catastrophic depressurization though, they only have seconds to get the masks on. If they didn’t get them on, everyone is lights out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**T2C** · 06-06-23, 12:42

Originally Posted by ubet

If it was a catastrophic depressurization though, they only have seconds to get the masks on. If they didn’t get them on, everyone is lights out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

12 seconds?

**Adrenaline_6** · 06-06-23, 13:46

Originally Posted by T2C

12 seconds?

At Flight level 400...about 7-10 seconds.

If it was explosive (.1 to .5 seconds)...less than that.

**Det-Sog** · 06-06-23, 13:46

Airline pilot here. As someone else mentioned, this brought back memories of the Payne Stewart crash. That one hurt, because I loved that guy and just watched him play in the tournament very shortly before the crash.

If I'm not mistaken, there was only one pilot on board the Cessna that crashed in Virginia. That model of citation I believe, is certified to be flown single pilot.

The depressurization is the only thing that makes sense to me. If the pilot had a heart attack and slumped over, the passengers would've noticed. One of them would've tried to do something, that either would have alerted air, traffic control, or made the plane crash more quickly. I'm thinking at a minimum one of the passengers would've got a radio call out. Just pick up the microphone and start talking, someone would've heard.

Now if the passengers were conscious, as soon as the F-16s pulled up next door, you would think the passengers will be waving out the window frantically. They weren't.

It's just sad. Lots can go wrong. As said, when you have a rapid depressurization, you only have a few seconds to get your mask on. It only works if you put it on in time, and this is assuming the oxygen bottle on the airplane was pressurized. Back in my corporate days, there were a timer to where I've cut the oxygen bottle, empty, or very low on the preflight. Not saying this is what happened, but you have to pay attention to these things.

The oxygen bottle for the Payne Stewart flight was turned off. It's part of the preflight. You have to check that before you takeoff. You can't turn the bottle on from inside the airplane. Even if you could, you won't have time in a rapid depressurization scenario. You'll be out by then.