Expo Arms M4 RAS Carbine Quad rail

[markm]

Is this about repeated installation/removal, or set it and forget it? I can easily see how 1913 is easier for the former, but I don't see how MLOK is a problem for the latter.

For me it's durability, standardization, and grunt proof useability. I'm fairly mechanical, but I don't find Mloks mounting to be intuitive at all. Nor do I even understand it really or care at this point. I tossed it behind me when PB's Mlok rail section peeled off because of their silly fasteners that aren't grunt proof. He'd mounted it incorrectly probably because you can't see the hardware without seeing the inside of the rail or handguard.

Then, just today, I see a BCM offset light mount in an email add that's Mlok to attach the rail, but Pic for the light. WTF?? You've effectively gone back to pic. That's so stupid it's Southpark material.

I'm just happy I can stop hoarding pic rails because they're making a comeback.

[Defaultmp3]

Then, just today, I see a BCM offset light mount in an email add that's Mlok to attach the rail, but Pic for the light. WTF?? You've effectively gone back to pic. That's so stupid it's Southpark material.

Not really. You still get a lighter, slimmer handguard with less rails to catch on things overall.

A BCM QRF is 2.12" in width, an MCMR is 1.5". I would gladly take the slightly more fiddly, one-time M-LOK install to have a much smaller OD, especially factoring in having to deal with lasers (having to wrap the hand all the way around to hit the fire button on the laser with the thumb really stretches the limits of my hands even on a WedgeLock, let alone around a quad rail).

[markm]

That's really a preference thing. I've NEVER (with the exception of of the original KMR rail that was silly light weight) felt that a handguard's weight made any difference. Carbine Quad rails are around 10 oz, so even if you reduced it by 25%, the gain isn't worth a sub-standard mounting system.

I've never had a snagging issue with Pic. I mostly run KAC panels or Chinese ripoff LaRue clips. I actually like a full handguard. I get it that some guys prefer a slim rail, but I don't.

[Dutch110]

That's interesting. What's your glove size? Have you tried a Magpul M-LOK AFG?

Well ergonomics are highly subjective and specific to the individual in question. What works for me may not work for anyone else. So debating it on the interwebs is kind of pointless.

[Defaultmp3]

That's really a preference thing. I've NEVER (with the exception of of the original KMR rail that was silly light weight) felt that a handguard's weight made any difference. Carbine Quad rails are around 10 oz, so even if you reduced it by 25%, the gain isn't worth a sub-standard mounting system.

I've never had a snagging issue with Pic. I mostly run KAC panels or Chinese ripoff LaRue clips. I actually like a full handguard. I get it that some guys prefer a slim rail, but I don't.

If it's preference, then what makes it stupid? Why does M-LOK need to go away? Just because M-LOK doesn't fulfill any of your needs doesn't mean you need to constantly hate on M-LOK. M-LOK isn't a perfectly replacement for 1913, for sure, and has weaknesses compared to 1913, but it also had its advantages that 1913 cannot match, and is still a great interface system.

[Disciple]

Well ergonomics are highly subjective and specific to the individual in question. What works for me may not work for anyone else. So debating it on the interwebs is kind of pointless.

I didn't intend a debate, just an exploration of what works and, to the extent possible, why.

[markm]

If it's preference, then what makes it stupid? Why does M-LOK need to go away?

Mlok suck balls. It's a shitty mounting system. It's like steering the rail mounting into the stupidity that's RDS mounting on pistols... too many non-standard options. There's a great standard that works in pic. In my opinion, Geissele had it right with the moveable pic sections for those who wanted a slimmer overall handguard. Just put the pics where you need to mount things... as many or as few as you'd like.

[Defaultmp3]

Mlok suck balls. It's a shitty mounting system. It's like steering the rail mounting into the stupidity that's RDS mounting on pistols... too many non-standard options. There's a great standard that works in pic. In my opinion, Geissele had it right with the moveable pic sections for those who wanted a slimmer overall handguard. Just put the pics where you need to mount things... as many or as few as you'd like.

What makes M-LOK suck balls? Because it takes a little longer and little more care to install something on? I don't really think having to put a bit more effort into the install is such a huge insurmountable issue, given that it also allows for lower cost, lighter weight, and a slimmer handguard, it's a trade-off I'd gladly make. I'm not moving accessories around every day, my stuff is mounted and then basically never touched.

Nor is it like M-LOK is functionally weaker than 1913; Hell, in the Crane test between M-LOK and KeyMod, one of the Vltor 1913 flashlight mount failed before the M-LOK rail piece failed, where the clamping lug sheered off, while the other five tests' failure modes was the rail piece itself deforming enough so that the flashlight mount was pulled off, yet the rail sections themselves still stayed firmly attached to the handguard.

What makes M-LOK non-standard? AFAIK, and IME, M-LOK accessories works pretty universally, the only real differences tend to be the thickness of the walls, which is typically dictated by whether it's plastic or metal. Gas block interference issues may exist, but that's purely an issue of the ID of the handguard and the size of your gas block; it's basically the same problem as buying a gas block that doesn't fit inside a quad rail handguard. In fact, that's one of the big advantages of M-LOK over KeyMod, M-LOK is licensed by Magpul so you must follow the standard, rather than KeyMod being simply open source and thus people are able to tinker around with it and have compatibility issues.

Sure, the MK1 SMR, Centurion Arms original CMR, LMT LM8, LWRC Modular (ooo, another favorite of yours), Q Q-Sert, they're pretty easy to install rail sections just where you want them... unless you somehow strip that hole, then you're basically shit out of luck for that piece of the handguard, especially for some of the systems that use threaded aluminum instead of a steel insert. And either way, manufacturing costs would be much higher with those, and no one made their system licensable or open source, so that didn't matter anyway, it'd be extremely unlikely to become a standard if only one company is going to be allowed to manufacture it.

So, please, tell me how M-LOK is objectively shitty.

[ACE31]

Pics look right. I could never justify buying KACs when they were laying around for free everywhere, but now that I am old and fat I could use one for sure.

GWOT is over and no more being stole and sold cheap on forums....LOL

[markm]

So, please, tell me how M-LOK is objectively shitty.

I've already posted my issues with it. It's significantly sub-par to pic rail. I don't care if people want to use it and like it. To each their own, but I think it's a stupid solution to a problem that was never a real problem.