drug legalization (from: GOP talk of military action in Mexico)

[chuckman]

Hate to tell you, teens are dropping dead from alcohol just like they are drugs.

Not really. I can't tell you the last time we had to resuscitate a kid with extreme alcohol poisoning in the ED. Last week alone we probably had 5 come in for OD.

I could buy the argument that a lot of kids who die from ETOH-related problems die in MVCs, and not ETOH overdose.

[Todd.K]

Just because there are abuses in laws and enforcement doesn’t mean the only alternative is legalization. This is an oversimplification I think is too common in the legalization crowd.

To me that’s like saying we shouldn’t have fought AQ because the Patriot Act is bad.

We will never stop drunk driving, but it doesn’t mean we should stop enforcement. But I think we should stop unconstitutional DUI checkpoints.

We should eliminate the unconstitutional laws and enforcement against drugs, stop calling it a “war”, and stop claiming it’s something we can “win”.

[tn1911]

Just because there are abuses in laws and enforcement doesn’t mean the only alternative is legalization. This is an oversimplification I think is too common in the legalization crowd.

Thanks to the WOD we live in a country where dogs can issue search warrants. The amount of freedoms you have lost because of some random plant is astounding, you are on a pro 2A gun website and yet you just don’t care.

When I entered LE in the very early 2000’s I was a Reagan loving Republican, when I left LE about a decade later I was a hardcore Uber libertarian...

[Artos]

Prohibition worked like a champ...comparable to wod.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Hate to tell you, teens are dropping dead from alcohol just like they are drugs.

Again, what’s the difference?

The difference? All the alcohol poisoning deaths for those 24 and under are about 100 a year. In that same age bracket about 6,500 opioid deaths during 2021.

My original point what that fentanyl laced pills are nothing like when I was a kid during the 70s. Drugs were everywhere... whites, reds, yellows, black beauties... you name it. Anyone living during that time knows what I'm talking about. Kids weren't dropping dead from taking a pill or even a blotter hit anywhere near like kids are today. The situation is MUCH different today. If you want to convince yourself otherwise... enjoy.

[JediGuy]

Well.... don’t leave us hanging here Obi Wan.

Despite spending too much time on this forum, I do have a life outside the internet. Perhaps that’s why I have perspective.

Others have actually responded well enough.

How many people have been killed or permanently damaged (physical or psychological) by alcohol use after one instance of use?

We’ll never get rid of drugs. And I used to be OK with marijuana legalization. But we’ve actually seen the result of that.

We’ll also never get rid of murder.

Every thing that is legal becomes easier. As a society, we get to decide whether we want that for ourselves and our kids.

[Stickman]

People aren't out robbing and breaking into houses to support their alcohol habit, or if they are, the numbers are so small so as to be insignificant.

Take the numbers for violent crime and start looking for the tie ins to narcotics. It is immediately clear they are linked at a high level. That doesn't mean all, but so much crime ties back into the drug trade it is obscene. Making it legal might drop the price a bit, but the rest of the crime that goes around it still exists.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Not really. I can't tell you the last time we had to resuscitate a kid with extreme alcohol poisoning in the ED. Last week alone we probably had 5 come in for OD.

I could buy the argument that a lot of kids who die from ETOH-related problems die in MVCs, and not ETOH overdose.

Right. A kid drinking his first beer might gag on the taste and maybe puke after two or three, but that's much different that taking a fentanyl laced pill and ODing shortly thereafter.

[wil]

Thanks to the WOD we live in a country where dogs can issue search warrants. The amount of freedoms you have lost because of some random plant is astounding, you are on a pro 2A gun website and yet you just don’t care.

When I entered LE in the very early 2000’s I was a Reagan loving Republican, when I left LE about a decade later I was a hardcore Uber libertarian...

Concur: the abuse of authority and even worse our civil rights under this so-called 'war on drugs' has become little more than an empowerment mechanism. Some 'dog' supposedly 'alerts' on your car, and how much of your rights go out the window right there and then?

And we also know this 'alert' situation is a situation where the handler can manipulate the dog and 'claim' it is a bonafide alert, as well as it is becoming documented these dogs are not as accurate as claimed.
Where are the standards that define what constitutes a legitimate alert by a dog? None that I know of. Only a subjectively specious claim on an animals behavior, not a standard I want my civil rights to be subjected to.

The same for the 'claim' that if both windows are open, an officer can claim he/she 'smells the odor of weed' < this is case law if memory serves me correctly and also if memory serves me correctly gives probable cause for search.
Again, a specious claim of which there is almost no defense against unless an individual knows to keep one window up at all times during an LE interaction.

Legalization may not be the perfect answer, cultural change in regards to drug use would be a good starting point along with legalization. However this farce of a "war on drugs" needs to stop.

[Todd.K]

Thanks to the WOD we live in a country where dogs can issue search warrants. The amount of freedoms you have lost because of some random plant is astounding, you are on a pro 2A gun website and yet you just don’t care.

When I entered LE in the very early 2000’s I was a Reagan loving Republican, when I left LE about a decade later I was a hardcore Uber libertarian...

You are proving my point of oversimplifying. You don’t HAVE to legalize hard drugs to remove bad laws.