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Thread: Was there ever any proof regarding .38 Colt Long vs. .45 acp?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdyYRTWbD2M

    In this youtube video by P&S about the .357, they talk about the .38 Colt not working. And the .30-40 Krag (lol, you missed, dude). And the .45 Colt. Apparently the only thing that worked was buckshot, because dudes sucked terribly at shooting. And another nation’s troops making the same gripes about .577 (lol, you missed, dude) and .455.
    Not to derail the thread and I certainly wasn't there, but makes you wonder about the tales of Sammies sucking up M855 during the "Blackhawk Down" debacle. lol, you missed, dude
    11C2P '83-'87
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    Not to derail the thread and I certainly wasn't there, but makes you wonder about the tales of Sammies sucking up M855 during the "Blackhawk Down" debacle. lol, you missed, dude
    Those dudes are tough mother****ers, and survive some pretty nasty injuries, but properly placed bullets of pretty much any type kill the shit out of them.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    Not to derail the thread and I certainly wasn't there, but makes you wonder about the tales of Sammies sucking up M855 during the "Blackhawk Down" debacle. lol, you missed, dude
    One of my 1st Sgts was a private with 10th Mountain that went in for the extraction. He said they shot a lot of guys and never said anything about the rifles not working.

    Then again, some dudes can soak up some rounds before going down.
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    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  4. #44
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    There were a couple guys from my unit who would complain about the 5.56 not working. These were also the guys that always had a hard time qualifying yet they are certain they hit the guy sprinting across a narrow road 200 meters away.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    There were a couple guys from my unit who would complain about the 5.56 not working. These were also the guys that always had a hard time qualifying yet they are certain they hit the guy sprinting across a narrow road 200 meters away.
    “I put half a mag in that guy”
    “No dude, you dumped half a mag AT that guy. If you’d have put half a mag IN that guy, right now I’d be poking a dead guy with my gun rather than having this conversation.”

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdyYRTWbD2M

    In this youtube video by P&S about the .357, they talk about the .38 Colt not working. And the .30-40 Krag (lol, you missed, dude). And the .45 Colt. Apparently the only thing that worked was buckshot, because dudes sucked terribly at shooting. And another nation’s troops making the same gripes about .577 (lol, you missed, dude) and .455.
    I would have to say if you are missing with rifle and pistol, you would miss with buckshot. The .30 US used a long, stable FMJ round nose that probably penciled through unless bone was hit; there is a reason folks don't hunt with long, heavy FMJ round nose bullets.

    Buckshot works the same way now - multiple projectiles from a ~ 70 caliber long gun are effective..

    We (should) all understand that pistols are ballistically inferior and difficult to shoot well. I would still pick a .45 at 900-ish fps over a .38 at 800-ish fps if I had to choose. Fortunately I am neither fighting in the jungle or restricted to black powder revolvers

    Andy
    Last edited by AndyLate; 10-20-23 at 08:38.

  7. #47
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    I don’t mean to be argumentative, but that’s not how rifle ballistics nor aiming work.

    They missed. Its the simplest explanation that doesn’t have to be contrary to modern scientific understanding of wounding effects. It is absurd to think that .30-40 Krag is ineffective at the distances actual engagements happen at.

    From Wikipedia, everyone’s favorite source: “In 1899, a Krag in .30-40 caliber was used to shoot the world-record Rocky Mountain elk. The record stood until the latter half of the 20th century.” That cartridge was quite potent; more powerful than the 30-30 and 7.62x39, approaching that of 7.62 NATO and 7.62x54R. And those cartridges have put a ton of dudes in the dirt prior to reliably expanding projectiles existed, and after, with FMJ.

    The .577 rifle cartridge is significantly more powerful as well as larger in diameter than .45 Colt, so how do we explain that soldiers complained about it not being effective, other than poor marksmanship, if we make the assumption that .45 Colt is effective? Which would be a poor assumption, since soldiers complained about that one, as well.

  8. #48
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    I did not say or imply the Krag was worthless. I said it would pencil through a body unless it hit bone.

    My point is only that if soldiers were missing with rifle and pistol, they were most likely missing with buckshot as well. If you shoot someone with a Krag and they still kill you with a knife, they are too close for a buckshot pattern to open up enough to turn a miss into a hit.

    https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...service-rifle/

    Andy
    Last edited by AndyLate; 10-20-23 at 14:39.

  9. #49
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    Intresting video on the 1902 pistol.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eT6TVPbqcNs

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    “I put half a mag in that guy”
    “No dude, you dumped half a mag AT that guy. If you’d have put half a mag IN that guy, right now I’d be poking a dead guy with my gun rather than having this conversation.”
    Hahaha !
    Ive seen that happen.

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