UAW strike

[.45fan]

I'll just stick with GM products for the foreseeable future.

Yes the UAW sucks but for Christ's sake, the headquarters is 10 minutes from my house and the CEO speaks English.

I refuse be a sell out buying foreign shit voluntarily.

My 1/2 ton came out if the flint Michigan plant, as did the two Tahoe's my wife and daughter drive, my 3/4 ton company truck came out of a plant in Indiana.

To recap american plants, american headquarters, so I at least make an effort to support american companies and workers (yet again).

[jdavis6576]

I bought a new Toyota in February, paid under MSRP and SETF beat two local credit unions on short term financing. Granted, I had to shop a few dealerships but I as able to buy from one 30 minutes away that had the model, packages and color I wanted in stock. Deals can be had for those willing to do a little work, even on a new Toyota.

[Adrenaline_6]

I'll just stick with GM products for the foreseeable future.

Yes the UAW sucks but for Christ's sake, the headquarters is 10 minutes from my house and the CEO speaks English.

I refuse be a sell out buying foreign shit voluntarily.

My 1/2 ton came out if the flint Michigan plant, as did the two Tahoe's my wife and daughter drive, my 3/4 ton company truck came out of a plant in Indiana.

To recap american plants, american headquarters, so I at least make an effort to support american companies and workers (yet again).

They aren't American companies anymore. They are global companies. Like all of them are. They don't care about you or the American people. Just profits. Sure, they have plants here, but so does Toyota and the others. If it gives you the warm fuzzy that the person(s) that doesn't really give a sh*t about you speaks english, Ok, you do you, but logical it is not.

[Adrenaline_6]

I wish that were the case but I think I will be proven correct. Follow with me on this logic.

1.) TNGA-F platform is very modular, the actual wheelbase doesn’t dictate very much in production since the assembly line jig mounting points are evidently not wheelbase sensitive. The LC300/LX600, Sequoia, Tundra, LC250/GX550 are all being produced on the same architecture, even though the Sequoia and Tundra have much longer wheelbases than the two LC variants. The other components like suspension mounting points, motor mounts etc appear to be extremely similar if not identical though. The new Tacoma is also being based on this architecture but no one is certain yet if things like frame rails are the same width.

2.) Toyota/Lexus seem very intent on creating differentiation in their product lines and brands. The new GX550 has been designed to not step on LX600 features directly, it’s much less luxurious, has a detuned TTV6, and is more utilitarian in styling and features. There’s a dedicated off road model for the GX where’re the LX is all about being a luxobarge.

We’ve also seen the separation of Toyota products from Lexus with the current 4Runner and GX460. The 4Runner is the poor cousin of the GX even though they’re both closely related to if not outright a Land Cruiser Prado. The Toyota is stuck with a 4.0L V6 and ancient 5 speed auto, only has full time 4X4 on the limited where the Lexus gets the 4.6L V8 and a 6 speed plus full time 4X4 standard. Now we see the same thing again with the Land Cruiser and GX550. The Lexus gets the more powerful and prestigious engine and transmission, while the Toyota will get a I4 Turbo Hybrid with “only” an 8 speed. Now that the North American Land Cruiser is based directly on the Prado (LC250) expect the mechanical packaging of those two to be set in stone for quite awhile if not the entire model run so that Toyota Land Cruiser sales don’t threaten GX550 sales as much.

The Toyota 4Runner hasn’t had a choice of engines since the 4th Gen, and it won’t get one for the 6th Gen either. Dollars to donuts the 6th Gen is going to be Tacoma based from interior to exterior and will get only the 2.4L I4 Turbo for initially, if there’s a hybrid I wouldn’t be surprised to see it only be the naturally aspirated 2.5L I4 with the identical 48HP electric motor hybrid and 1.87KwH battery from the Tundra/Sequoia/Tacoma/Land Cruiser 250. I hope I’m wrong about that, but Toyota seems intent on making sure there’s very little product overlap. I think they want bucks up 4Runner buyers to step on up to the newly affordable Land Cruiser vs a Limited 4Runner or TRD Pro.

Unless of course they knock it out of the park and make the 4Runner much more off road focused, if it’s rocking a removable roof and doors and is really going after the Bronco/Wrangler market I can see it getting the I4 Turbo Hybrid as an option. There’s no overlap in that case, the Land Cruiser is the Jack of all Trades 4X4 with some amenities (what I would buy), and the 4Runner can be the off-road toy/recreation oriented rig. Hopefully they go that route, because a bunch of hard top 4X4 SUV wagons on a full truck frame all, all more or less the same size, competing in the same showroom makes no damn sense.

Another possibility could be that Toyota is positioning the LC Prado to do away with the 4Runner. Yes, the 4Runner is a huge hit here in the US, but not really anywhere else. It isn't even sold in Europe, just South America and Canada. Canadian sales of the 4Runner are miserable. Very similar in number to the LC in the US, which is probably why Toyota stopped selling them here.

On the flip side, like you mentioned, if they are wanting to position the 4Runner to go after the Jeep, Bronco, Overlanding, 4wheeling market, I would bet they most definitely will offer the TTV6 as an option or will fail at that goal. Removeable doors and roof would be cool, but doesn't fit into Toyota's conservative mindset.

[ryr8828]

I'll just stick with GM products for the foreseeable future.

Yes the UAW sucks but for Christ's sake, the headquarters is 10 minutes from my house and the CEO speaks English.

I refuse be a sell out buying foreign shit voluntarily.

My 1/2 ton came out if the flint Michigan plant, as did the two Tahoe's my wife and daughter drive, my 3/4 ton company truck came out of a plant in Indiana.

To recap american plants, american headquarters, so I at least make an effort to support american companies and workers (yet again).

I had a chevy Silverado ltz, manufactured in Mexico.
I had a 2015 Duramax 2500 hd crew cab, made in Indiana.
I got a Ram dually cummins in 2018, made in Mexico.

I quit caring.

[.45fan]

I had a chevy Silverado ltz, manufactured in Mexico.
I had a 2015 Duramax 2500 hd crew cab, made in Indiana.
I got a Ram dually cummins in 2018, made in Mexico.

I quit caring.

If you want one from and American plant, just tell the sales people you will only accept a vehicle where the first number of the VIN is 1.

Mexico is 3 Canada is 2.
I have no idea about the other continents as I won't buy those.

[Coal Dragger]

Another possibility could be that Toyota is positioning the LC Prado to do away with the 4Runner. Yes, the 4Runner is a huge hit here in the US, but not really anywhere else. It isn't even sold in Europe, just South America and Canada. Canadian sales of the 4Runner are miserable. Very similar in number to the LC in the US, which is probably why Toyota stopped selling them here.

On the flip side, like you mentioned, if they are wanting to position the 4Runner to go after the Jeep, Bronco, Overlanding, 4wheeling market, I would bet they most definitely will offer the TTV6 as an option or will fail at that goal. Removeable doors and roof would be cool, but doesn't fit into Toyota's conservative mindset.

That’s why my guess is the 4Runner will be a down market half hearted attempt because it’s not a global platform for Toyota. Kind of like the new Tundra and Sequoia, my guess is it will be very blah. There’s a reason the redesign is taking so long, and keeps getting pushed back.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Another possibility could be that Toyota is positioning the LC Prado to do away with the 4Runner. Yes, the 4Runner is a huge hit here in the US, but not really anywhere else. It isn't even sold in Europe, just South America and Canada. Canadian sales of the 4Runner are miserable. Very similar in number to the LC in the US, which is probably why Toyota stopped selling them here.

On the flip side, like you mentioned, if they are wanting to position the 4Runner to go after the Jeep, Bronco, Overlanding, 4wheeling market, I would bet they most definitely will offer the TTV6 as an option or will fail at that goal. Removeable doors and roof would be cool, but doesn't fit into Toyota's conservative mindset.

That’s why my guess is the 4Runner will be a down market half hearted attempt because it’s not a global platform for Toyota. Kind of like the new Tundra and Sequoia, my guess is it will be very blah. There’s a reason the redesign is taking so long, and keeps getting pushed back.

My guess is that it becomes a 4 door FJ cruiser. The issue is that Toyota has all kinds of SUVs now. The good news is that they have enough that they could make the 4Runner a real 4x4 and have enough coverage for other market niches. Could be interesting.

What gets me is that the ‘old-school’ option is a turbo-engine, and you’ll soon have a problem getting one with out some kind of EV. Now, I’m not against EVs in general. A two door stripper Jeep with a EV motor might be interesting. I’m not looking to take long drives in that.