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Thread: Help me chose a new truck

  1. #51
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    I thought the 2023 F150 Rattler was the perfect starting point for a gonzo pickup. Looks like it is not being offered in 2024. Still if you order an XL or XLT with the FX4 package and go with the Ford Performance Coyote V8 supercharger (warranty friendly) you can build a truck half way between a Raptor and Raptor R for many thousands less. ~$9500 for the base 700 hp supercharger.

    The two things that turn me off the base Raptor are the turbo 6 dependability and mostly the extra width. It sure would be fun showing the door to an Ecoboost Raptor with a stock looking sleeper.
    “ When I comes to modern politics, I think the inverse of Hanlon's Razor applies...In other words, "Never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice." - Kerplode

  2. #52
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    The only way you'd be happy in a Raptor is if you really like fart can noises coming from the pitiful exhaust on the little V6. 🤣

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mRad View Post
    No, I said I bought an OR and there was an SR5 there. My friend is looking at an OR for $39k

    50k is not double low 30s and if you’re paying 50k for an SR5, they saw you coming.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'll try to get a picture of some window stickers to show the bogus add-ons and market price adjustments.

    If you want to buy a tacoma, 4Runner, Honda CRV or similar the dealers are in lockstep. Inventory is very tight and they will not drop the add-ons and market price adjustment. $2000 dealer prep and $1999 "admin" fees.

    Average Transaction Price is a metric tracked in the auto industry. It is over $65k for light trucks and has been for months. During the peak of the insanity there were 4 runners sold in the 70s.

    You and I both agree that is insane. But it's also the current reality. Toyota raised its prices more than any other non-luxury automaker in the last 2 years. They have also reduced allocations of production to the US 15 to 20%. Their production is back to normal, they are just choosing to ship less to the US.

    My son bought that exact truck above in a different color in 2020 drive out with the stupid Georgia at valorem tax for $31k. That same truck drive out in Georgia would be 50-55ish currently.

    So maybe not quite double like it was during the peak of the pandemic, but very close to it.

    Jeep, ram, and GM have blinked and started to offer incentives on their trucks. Ford is sticking tight on their truck pricing despite 500 plus days of inventory and they're dealing. Their CEO has talked about their plan to change the way trucks are sold and to move it into the luxury category. He also said that the new labor agreement would result in them having to increase prices 18%.

    So you and I can think it's insane, but the dealers and manufacturers have deep pockets right now are currently willing to sit on their inventory.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinzgauer View Post
    I'll try to get a picture of some window stickers to show the bogus add-ons and market price adjustments.

    If you want to buy a tacoma, 4Runner, Honda CRV or similar the dealers are in lockstep. Inventory is very tight and they will not drop the add-ons and market price adjustment. $2000 dealer prep and $1999 "admin" fees.

    Average Transaction Price is a metric tracked in the auto industry. It is over $65k for light trucks and has been for months. During the peak of the insanity there were 4 runners sold in the 70s.

    You and I both agree that is insane. But it's also the current reality. Toyota raised its prices more than any other non-luxury automaker in the last 2 years. They have also reduced allocations of production to the US 15 to 20%. Their production is back to normal, they are just choosing to ship less to the US.

    My son bought that exact truck above in a different color in 2020 drive out with the stupid Georgia at valorem tax for $31k. That same truck drive out in Georgia would be 50-55ish currently.

    So maybe not quite double like it was during the peak of the pandemic, but very close to it.

    Jeep, ram, and GM have blinked and started to offer incentives on their trucks. Ford is sticking tight on their truck pricing despite 500 plus days of inventory and they're dealing. Their CEO has talked about their plan to change the way trucks are sold and to move it into the luxury category. He also said that the new labor agreement would result in them having to increase prices 18%.

    So you and I can think it's insane, but the dealers and manufacturers have deep pockets right now are currently willing to sit on their inventory.


    Sounds like you need to shop around. Like I said, within two years I paid $36k for a brand new OR. One buddy bought an OR for $39k and another is eyeing one for $39k. One friend of mine was planning to buy one well-optioned OR for $42k, but got tired of waiting and bought a Nissan instead.

    Whereever you’re looking, look elsewhere. I’m still waiting to see the mid 60s SR5 you talked about.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinzgauer View Post
    I'll try to get a picture of some window stickers to show the bogus add-ons and market price adjustments.

    If you want to buy a tacoma, 4Runner, Honda CRV or similar the dealers are in lockstep. Inventory is very tight and they will not drop the add-ons and market price adjustment. $2000 dealer prep and $1999 "admin" fees.

    Average Transaction Price is a metric tracked in the auto industry. It is over $65k for light trucks and has been for months. During the peak of the insanity there were 4 runners sold in the 70s.

    You and I both agree that is insane. But it's also the current reality. Toyota raised its prices more than any other non-luxury automaker in the last 2 years. They have also reduced allocations of production to the US 15 to 20%. Their production is back to normal, they are just choosing to ship less to the US.

    My son bought that exact truck above in a different color in 2020 drive out with the stupid Georgia at valorem tax for $31k. That same truck drive out in Georgia would be 50-55ish currently.

    So maybe not quite double like it was during the peak of the pandemic, but very close to it.

    Jeep, ram, and GM have blinked and started to offer incentives on their trucks. Ford is sticking tight on their truck pricing despite 500 plus days of inventory and they're dealing. Their CEO has talked about their plan to change the way trucks are sold and to move it into the luxury category. He also said that the new labor agreement would result in them having to increase prices 18%.

    So you and I can think it's insane, but the dealers and manufacturers have deep pockets right now are currently willing to sit on their inventory.
    So I just bought a 2024 Silverado 1500 ZR2 AEV Bison last Thursday. Still not sure why I did it, but I did. I got $5,265 off MSRP by the dealer, $1,000 .mil bonus cash and an incredible $31K trade-in on my 2018 Colorado with 43K miles. I didn't even clean it because I didn't intend to buy. I factored the $1,200 I was going to have to spend on new tires next spring into my decision. Oh, I also qualified for 1.9% financing for 36 months from GM Financial (I was surprised they let me have that with the $1K bonus cash). So the incentives are there if you look hard enough.

    I didn't even look at the Raptor or TRX, because neither of them would fit in my garage. The Silverado ZR2 BARELY fits.
    What if this whole crusade's a charade?
    And behind it all there's a price to be paid
    For the blood which we dine
    Justified in the name of the holy and the divine…

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_saan View Post
    The only way you'd be happy in a Raptor is if you really like fart can noises coming from the pitiful exhaust on the little V6. 🤣
    Yeah, I used to make fun of them too when I had my big V-8 Raptor. Joked that they sounded like one of those little Subarus with the big exhaust can. Then I drove one. I traded my 6.2L in the same day. I got over the sound real quick. For the price, there is no better bang for the buck imho.

    Like I said in my earlier post... Haters are going to hate. It's OK. You're just jealous. Go load up your minivan and take your kids to chucky cheese.
    U.S. Army vet. -- Retired 25 year LEO.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    So I just bought a 2024 Silverado 1500 ZR2 AEV Bison last Thursday. Still not sure why I did it, but I did. I got $5,265 off MSRP by the dealer, $1,000 .mil bonus cash and an incredible $31K trade-in on my 2018 Colorado with 43K miles.
    GM and Ram are both starting to offer really good deals with factory incentives and aggressive dealer pricing.

    Jeep even more so, I'm hearing of people getting gladiators $20K under MSRP.

    They're not budging much on the top tier trucks like the TRX, Cummins Rams and the raptor though.

    But I think that will come, there is only so much market for 100k pickup trucks with current interest rates.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinzgauer View Post
    GM and Ram are both starting to offer really good deals with factory incentives and aggressive dealer pricing.

    Jeep even more so, I'm hearing of people getting gladiators $20K under MSRP.

    They're not budging much on the top tier trucks like the TRX, Cummins Rams and the raptor though.

    But I think that will come, there is only so much market for 100k pickup trucks with current interest rates.
    That's why I was shocked they'd come off MSRP for the ZR2 Bison, much less over $6K WITH 1.9% financing. That's Chevy's top dog outside the HD lineup.
    What if this whole crusade's a charade?
    And behind it all there's a price to be paid
    For the blood which we dine
    Justified in the name of the holy and the divine…

  9. #59
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    Careful with Jeep. Go to consumer reports and see the list of the top 10 worst vehicles... Now add that at least in my area, eight out of ten jeeps are driven by girls. Real men drive trucks and/or ride Harleys.
    U.S. Army vet. -- Retired 25 year LEO.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mRad View Post
    Sounds like you need to shop around. Like I said, within two years I paid $36k for a brand new OR. One buddy bought an OR for $39k and another is eyeing one for $39k. One friend of mine was planning to buy one well-optioned OR for $42k, but got tired of waiting and bought a Nissan instead.

    Whereever you’re looking, look elsewhere. I’m still waiting to see the mid 60s SR5 you talked about.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sounds like you've not tried in the last 6 months. Family members have.

    A quick look around locally, and they are no longer double. So I'll concede that my "doubled in price since 2020" is no longer accurate. They did for a bit, but they've started to come down.

    That said, even without some of the crazy add-ons they are still 40-45% higher than they were in 2020. And that's just sticker, in 2020 we were able to buy a 4x4 SR5 quad taco for close to invoice drive out (less tax).

    Attached are two stickers for '23 4x4 SR5 quad cab. $43-45k. One still has $500 of bogus dealer add-ons. Both have 4-6k mandatory distributor add-ons. You can see them on the sticker. Those are non-negotiable, the distributor charges the dealer for them as part of their invoice.

    Southeast Toyota distributes more Toyota's than any other region. Followed by Gulf State. The other Toyota regions work direct from Toyota and may be able to dodge the stupid distributor add-ons.

    The dealer I stopped at in Kennesaw had just stopped their most egregious predatory add-ons December 1. Nov 30 there was a $1495 dealer admin fee, and $2,500 market price adjustment. Putting that truck at $47k plus tax Nov 30.

    During the peak of insanity that would have been another 10K higher, possibly more as they were putting the stupid wheel and 4x4 packages on them and charging triple what they were worth.

    The other sticker is from Texas, which also has to come from a distributor and also has the bogus add-ons. The dealer pkg you might have a chance at negotiating away.

    When no one had stock dealers would laugh at you if you said you were going to buy it somewhere else.

    Even now they are absolutely firm on sticker, though there are things like $500 military discount and some incentive financing.

    All of this is a bit moot as these particular trucks are the last of the 2023s. The 2024s are going to be higher and to me less desirable due to engine. For that same 4x4 SR5 quad cab it's $3.7 k more.

    It does make me think it would be worth shopping further north if the other regions do not have the crazy Toyota distributor aspect. Tennessee would be my closest. I may check there to see what they're doing.
    Screenshot_20231207_164806_Chrome.jpg
    Attachment 71130
    Last edited by pinzgauer; 12-07-23 at 19:22.

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