Just how big were the Iowa class battleships?

[ABNAK]

Then there is the perpetual Iowa class vs the Yamato/Musashi class debate......what if? Some say the 18" behemoth guns on the Japanese ships would've smoked our ships. Others say US fire control was superior and therefore we would win the shootout.

One thing about naval gunfire fights: they are usually not instantly ka-booming things. The Hood vs Bismark aside, most naval gunfights are a multiple-hit "death of a thousand cuts" type of thing. Hell, the Musashi took something like 17 bomb and 19 torpedo hits! Imagine the [comparatively] pin-prick of naval gunfire shells vs bombs and torpedoes. In an analogy think of being hit with 30 rounds of .22LR vs 10 of .38 Spl. You're shit's gonna be weak either way.

[Diamondback]

Also depends on time of engagement. At night or bad weather, Iowa's radar fire control gives the advantage, while Yamato had some of the best optical gun-layer systems ever built.

Realistically, it's gonna SUCK to be on EITHER ship in that scenario, probably ends up a BHR vs Serapis either way where both crews have to work side by side after the battle to keep the surviving ship from sinking.

[Diamondback]

Battle damage to the Kirishima: http://www.navweaps.com/index_lundgr...geAnalysis.php

A number hit at or below the waterline, no doubt causing flooding problems in addition to the topside hits.

Worth noting also that the Kongos started life as battlecruisers, and while up-armored into the battleship weight class were never the equal of a purpose-built BB of similar tonnage.

[ABNAK]

Then there's the Surigao Strait where the old U.S. battleships under Oldendorf "crossed the T" of the Japs and won the last battleship engagement in world history. It was often referred to as "Pearl Harbor's revenge" since five of our battleships that night had been at Pearl Harbor on that Day of Infamy.

[Coal Dragger]

Then there is the perpetual Iowa class vs the Yamato/Musashi class debate......what if? Some say the 18" behemoth guns on the Japanese ships would've smoked our ships. Others say US fire control was superior and therefore we would win the shootout.

One thing about naval gunfire fights: they are usually not instantly ka-booming things. The Hood vs Bismark aside, most naval gunfights are a multiple-hit "death of a thousand cuts" type of thing. Hell, the Musashi took something like 17 bomb and 19 torpedo hits! Imagine the [comparatively] pin-prick of naval gunfire shells vs bombs and torpedoes. In an analogy think of being hit with 30 rounds of .22LR vs 10 of .38 Spl. You're shit's gonna be weak either way.

A 16” AP projectile weighed 2700lbs and change. An 18” was something like 3200lbs.

So you’re dealing considerably more energy from those big naval rifles than a WWII era aircraft dropped torpedo or bomb.

[Diamondback]

Then there's the Surigao Strait where the old U.S. battleships under Oldendorf "crossed the T" of the Japs and won the last battleship engagement in world history. It was often referred to as "Pearl Harbor's revenge" since five of our battleships that night had been at Pearl Harbor on that Day of Infamy.

Ironically, both of those were scenarios I was working on writing when Hasbro basically burned Wizards of the Coast to the ground and Axis & Allies Miniatures with it.

[ABNAK]

A 16” AP projectile weighed 2700lbs and change. An 18” was something like 3200lbs.

So you’re dealing considerably more energy from those big naval rifles than a WWII era aircraft dropped torpedo or bomb.

IIRC the weight of the shell itself is in no way close to the weight of the explosive charge. They were made to penetrate other ships or fortified positions; as such the vast majority of the weight was in the shell's makeup. In a 2700lb shell the size/weight of the actual explosive was comparatively small. Maybe a couple hundred pounds of explosives in a 2700lb shell (?).

[Diamondback]

IIRC the weight of the shell itself is in no way close to the weight of the explosive charge. They were made to penetrate other ships or fortified positions; as such the vast majority of the weight was in the shell's makeup. In a 2700lb shell the size/weight of the actual explosive was comparatively small. Maybe a couple hundred pounds of explosives in a 2700lb shell (?).

Yup, most of the weight is casing, even more so with the heavy caps on AP and "Superheavy AP" rounds.
Of the AP Mk 8's 2700lb weight, 41lb is the bursting charge (Explosive D), 1.5-3lb is dye marker and the rest as far as I can tell is the casing and penetrator. Heavy Common rounds only weigh 1900lb and the burster on those goes up to 135lb. Good comparison is if an HC weighs as much as a Volkswagen Bug, the actual boomstuff inside is only the weight of its driver.
http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-....php#ammonote1

[Coal Dragger]

IIRC the weight of the shell itself is in no way close to the weight of the explosive charge. They were made to penetrate other ships or fortified positions; as such the vast majority of the weight was in the shell's makeup. In a 2700lb shell the size/weight of the actual explosive was comparatively small. Maybe a couple hundred pounds of explosives in a 2700lb shell (?).

Correct, but the weight of explosives in a 1000lb or 2000lb bomb is also only a fraction of the bomb weight. None of the bombs have much chance of penetrating useful amounts of battleship grade deck armor on the later US battleships, or the Yamato.

We are talking about 6” of armored deck over critical machinery spaces etc. Aircraft dropped bombs can pretty much piss off.

[ABNAK]

Correct, but the weight of explosives in a 1000lb or 2000lb bomb is also only a fraction of the bomb weight. None of the bombs have much chance of penetrating useful amounts of battleship grade deck armor on the later US battleships, or the Yamato.

We are talking about 6” of armored deck over critical machinery spaces etc. Aircraft dropped bombs can pretty much piss off.

Maybe that's why the Musashi absorbed 17 bombs and 19 torpedoes before it sunk. Strangely the Yamato took almost half as much before it sunk. Torpedoes seem to have been the Achille's Heel of both.

The percentage of weight that was explosives in a 500lb bomb was like 38% (i.e. ~ 192lbs). Much higher than the ratio in a naval gun shell. Probably didn't penetrate as well as the sea-borne artillery did though.