Have we just discovered aliens?

[Averageman]

To think there is no other life in the galaxy is absurd. Crossing the galaxy is the issue.

Yes, but to be continuously jerked around about "Aliens" by a .gov that's running for cover because the guy they appointed POTUS is a jackeagon?
It just gets a little old.
BTW the speech the other day concerning insurrection? The "Insurrection" is taking place on our Border, he's aiding and abetting an invasion by a foreign Army.

[Todd.K]

To think there is no other life in the galaxy is absurd. Crossing the galaxy is the issue.

We really don’t know.
There is no way to know how rare the “spark” that creates life is, because we have never seen it. Even on a planet that has an obvious abundance of the “building blocks” we have never seen new life created.

[SteyrAUG]

To think there is no other life in the galaxy is absurd. Crossing the galaxy is the issue.

Even with heavy modifications to the Drake equation, I still think life happens every place it can be supported and even with our new understanding of all the many, many, many requirements for that (Rare Earth by Ward and Brownlee) mathematically that should still be a LOT of places even with the understanding that planets that can support life can't do it in the beginning and won't be capable of doing it past a middle age point. But we are still talking about a LOT of places it should and probably does happen.

Intelligent life is a completely different discussion. First it's not a biological determination. If the dinosaurs were never wiped out, it probably would have never happened here as mammals seem to be one of the few species with all the factors to develop any form of sentience. But if it can happen here, we have to allow for the possibility that it can happen elsewhere even if the environmental / evolutionary factors are completely different. We haven't seen life on another planet so it's all just human based assumption and we won't even have a realistic starting point for understanding until we actually see it.

That's the first big problem with the idea that aliens have come here, aliens have made contact with our government, there is an alien conspiracy and we reverse engineer their technology. The second big problem is in terms of life on the earth...WE just got here. If there was a representative species for the earth, it was the dinosaurs. They were here for 165 million years so if any travelers checked on the earth, then came back a few million years later, then checked again 50 million years later...they were seeing dinosaurs.

The idea that our atomic / nuclear weapon tests somehow pinged the radar of planets in the nearest solar system and / or presented some kind of galactic threat is so scientifically absurd I honestly can't have that discussion. Anything capable of getting from there to here has long since passed nuclear technology on their capability list it's like suggesting kids throwing rocks in Australia present a viable concern for those who live in the US. But honestly kids throwing rocks in Australia would be a more credible threat to people living in the US than the nuclear capacity of earth does risk wise to anyone in the local group. But it's a very, very human centric idea and that is why so many idiots subscribe to it.

But aliens are pretty much religion. They are sci fi jesus and help people accept their existence because there is "something bigger" out there. And the idea that "something bigger" would take the time, trouble and effort to come here and study us is pretty much the sci fi version of jesus dying for our sins, I mean if that doesn't prove how "special" we are...nothing does.

[SteyrAUG]

We really don’t know.
There is no way to know how rare the “spark” that creates life is, because we have never seen it. Even on a planet that has an obvious abundance of the “building blocks” we have never seen new life created.

So important a statement I don't think most people understand it. Despite all our efforts we have never been able to turn amino acids into life. One problem is we are assuming we completely understand the conditions of life on earth when it happened, but we really have no way of knowing "for sure." The second problem is we are assuming no outside influences like cosmic seeding, again we don't really know...maybe...maybe not.

Clearly we are missing something big.

[ViniVidivici]

All these worlds are yours, except Europa. Attempt no landing there.

[Adrenaline_6]

To think there is no other life in the galaxy is absurd. Crossing the galaxy is the issue.

Again as been repeated many times. It is only absurd if Abiogenesis actually can happen. If it can't, all those planets and space out there mean absolutely nothing at all. Zero multiplied by any number is still zero.

[Alpha-17]

How many "Alien" threads do we need? I get that it is incredibly fascinating for some people; 15 years ago I would have been one of them. These days it comes off as nothing but gaslighting for the inevitable "disclosure" that "aliens" exist, and we need to do X, Y, and Z because of that. Best case scenario, it'll be a ploy by human overlords that seek more power. More than likely, far darker forces will be involved.

[Todd.K]

So important a statement I don't think most people understand it. Despite all our efforts we have never been able to turn amino acids into life.

I’m not discounting the possibility, or even the probability of life out there.

There could be one ingredient that existed when life on earth began that doesn’t exist today. It could be common or exceptionally rare in combination with the other building blocks.

And your point on alien visitors being a religious belief for many is a great insight.

[Adrenaline_6]

I’m not discounting the possibility, or even the probability of life out there.

There could be one ingredient that existed when life on earth began that doesn’t exist today. It could be common or exceptionally rare in combination with the other building blocks.

And your point on alien visitors being a religious belief for many is a great insight.

That's the whole thing though. One "super ingredient" means nothing in the grand scheme of things. What was accomplished more than 50 years ago that caused the whole Abiogenesis theory to boom was actually nothing at all. They made more complex organic molecules that would be necessary for Abiogenesis from simpler organic precursors. That's it. Just building blocks. Nothing more has been accomplished since then. There are so many specific processes and precise temperature requirements. That experiment is still so far away from actual life it isn't funny.

There is chicken or the egg problem also. First it was theorized that cells came first then enzymes, then genes. Now we understand that Genes require enzymes to function, but you need genes to produce enzymes. Along with a whole bunch of other requirements like ribosomes, and a crapload of other proteins to say the least.

In other words, it isn't a specific condition and poof there is life. No there is a complex support structure to support it that would need to be there before but because enzymes are so specific, the enzyme needs to be created by the genes that require the support. If you want a crazy number to look at, think of the odds that would put all these specific substances, some specifically designed for a specific purpose to be in place and appear at the same time.

You are playing multiple lotteries that need to be won in a specific order and not lose any of them or you start over.

[SteyrAUG]

I’m not discounting the possibility, or even the probability of life out there.

There could be one ingredient that existed when life on earth began that doesn’t exist today. It could be common or exceptionally rare in combination with the other building blocks.

And your point on alien visitors being a religious belief for many is a great insight.

No disagreement here. My point was you touched on something along with Adrenaline_6 that is so key it can't be said enough. With our current understanding of biology we should be able to create "life in a vacuum" but after many, many, many attempts we haven't even been able to do it here, on this planet.

So it raises a fundamental question and remains a serious knowledge gap in science. So when we can't reproduce the original simple cell life forms right here on earth we really can't know anything about IF life exists anywhere else or what form it might take. This would be a much easier discussion to have if we could take amino acids, then add X and create anything.

We seem to have a more or less reasonable understanding of life from that point on, but the first one always seems to be a problem.