Scoping an A1

[SoDak]

I got back from shooting the gun a few hours ago and I have to say that I'm pretty pleased with the setup. After 50 rounds the mount didn't seem to loosen up and after getting the gun sighted in, I was able to hit beer bottles at about 100 yards prone(which was good for me, with my poor marksmanship). The cheekweld isn't the best, but the aimpoint is pretty forgiving in regards to eye psoition, so it works out. So far, I'm happy enough with the leupold mount and aimpoint, so I'll probably keep it this way. I do plan to add some witness marks to make sure that the mount doesn't loosen up. The mount is worth the money and if you aren't planning on using the irons very often once adding an optic, I would say it's good to go. I still stand by my opinion though that a person would be better off having the gun converted to a flattop.

[Bimmer]

Amicus, SoDak, whomever,

I've now got the ProMag and the Leupold mounts. What follows is just my initial impression:

The ProMag is surprisingly nice. It's actually a lot more detailed that the Leupold. The ends of the Leupold are flat, but the Promag is radiused. The Promag, with a bigger tunnel, is lighter. The Leupold fells more sturdy.

The attachment of the Leupold is much better. The bolt threads into the mount, so it's rock steady. The ProMag's "bolt" is basically a flat head screw with a roll pin running through the middle. So the ProMag's bolt won't turn, but it is wobbly. The Leupold bolt is a size larger than that of the ProMag, too.

Dimensionally, these are virtually identical. If there's any different in height, I can't see it.
The Leupold is about .010" wider (.500" vs. .490"), so it fits REALLY snugly in my CMMG carry handle. I thought it didn't fit at all, first. Then I mashed it in there, and tightened the bolt. I had to literally pry it out to remove it.
The Promag simply slips in and out, and once it's in, it doesn't wobble.

The sight tunnel on both is about the same diameter, but the ProMag is square, and lower.
Both are partially blocked by the attachment hardware, the bolt in the Leupold, the roll pin in the ProMag. I couldn't see the base of the front sight through the Leupold's tunnel, which was too high.
The view through the ProMag is MUCH better for me, because it's slightly lower, and it lines up PERFECTLY with the rear aperture sight. It's like the mount isn't even there.

Regarding mounting... the top of the Leupold is a constant "rail," so it's a lot more flexible. The ProMag has only a half dozen or so cross cuts. The top of the ProMag is much longer than that of the Leupold, but the last cut on both is at the exact same point, and the Leupold actually has a cut further forward than the last one on the ProMag.

For now, I'm going to run with the ProMag mount, but I'm keeping the Leupold in a safe spot.

Bimmer

[SoDak]

I got some more trigger time with the setup and I learned a bit more about it and its quircks. At close range(10 yds) the bullet will impact about 4-5" lower than where I aimed. I wasn't too happy about this, but after trying some of my other rifles(a flattop with an aimpoint and a regular A2), they didn't seem to shoot much higher. This is a bit of an issue since I do most of my shooting up close, but we'll see how big of an issue it is. I mentioned earlier about using the tunnel of the leupold mount as a ghost ring rather than using the rear sight and I ofund out that it works pretty well. Up close if you look above the rear sight and use the mount's tunnel it will put the round about where you aim. Of course one can't use it much past 20 yards or so, but it's kind of a neat trick. I'm starting to think though that I might get the new burris scope (AR-332) when it comes out since the aimpoint is a bit trickier to use at distances past 75 yards than I thought at first. I figure a 20" rifle might be better off having a magnified optics now after using it some. I'll just have to see what other find out regarding burris's new scope.

[Bimmer]

SoDak,

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that this is just a function of the AR's sights being so high above the bore.

I bet a scope sitting on top of the rear sight is 4-5" inches above the bore, so of course the POI is 4-5" below the POA at close range.

On the plus side, zeroing at 100yds probably means that that you're also zeroed at 300 or 350yds...

Ben

[SoDak]

SoDak,

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that this is just a function of the AR's sights being so high above the bore.

I bet a scope sitting on top of the rear sight is 4-5" inches above the bore, so of course the POI is 4-5" below the POA at close range.

On the plus side, zeroing at 100yds probably means that that you're also zeroed at 300 or 350yds...

Ben

I get that there is going to be a descrepancy between POA and POI at close ranges with ARs. What I was thinking and didn't explain was that I was worried with the aimpoint on the carry handle that there would be a big difference between POA and POI. It appears that it wasn't quite as bad as I thought compared to other rifles.

I also will note that after my last post I finally decided to scrap my A1 rifle "improvement" poject. I took the aimpoint and leupold mount off, put an A1 stock on, and stuck my triangle handguards back on the upper, finally converting the gun back to something of a retro rifle. There was nothing really wrong with any of the stuff I put on it(a light, aimpoint with CH mount, collapsable stock, etc.), but when it all went on an A1 rifle, it wasn't a very good fit. The gun really didn't do anything a carbine couldn't do better and I figured it was best to pu the gun back the way it was and take the stuff I removed and put it to use on rifles that can use it better.

[Amicus]

Bimmer,

I hope I didn't mislead you on the ProMag mount. It fits well on my RRA DCM/CMP model that I use for testing ammo and there is absolutely no play; it's actually pretty tight.

The only other carry handle mounts I use regularly are an ACOG and a BC-CAM/EoTech on Colts, and my ProMag fits about as solidly as those two.

Come to think of it, I lied. I am playing around with a detachable carry handle with an ACOG. You might say, why? It's because I actually shoot better inside of 50 yards with irons, and with an ACOG at greater distances. You can't cowitness with an ACOG, so, two sight systems.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[Bimmer]

Hey Amicus,

Not to worry, for $8.- I can hardly go wrong.

You were completely correct about the sight picture being better, and I think it's a GOOD thing that it just slips in and out of the sight channel in the carry handle.

On the balance I like it better than the Leupold mount – the ProMag is going on my gun, the Leupold is going into my box of spare parts.

Thanks again for the advice. You saved me $40 or $50.

Bimmer