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Thread: Francis Scott Key bridge is no more - video

  1. #51
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    It takes hours to get a ship and engine of that size up to speed. If they went full throttle (I don't know if it's possible at slow speed) the turbo is not spooled up, there will be lots of fuel being injected into the cylinders with not very much air to help it combust cleanly.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKjeff View Post
    It takes hours to get a ship and engine of that size up to speed. If they went full throttle (I don't know if it's possible at slow speed) the turbo is not spooled up, there will be lots of fuel being injected into the cylinders with not very much air to help it combust cleanly.
    Exactly, a ship's version of "roaling coal". I've been on a large ferry in a storm trying to dock. The full throttle inputs resulted in massive amounts of smoke.

  3. #53
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    Brick Immortar does some really good YouTube videos on ship disasters. I was under the impression that container ships like that were in top shape until I watched his video on the El Fero.

  4. #54
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    I'm a harbor pilot in Texas.
    While it is not a normal thing for a ship to "black out", it does happen. The causes could be endless.
    In my 20 years of working on ships all over the world, I can easily think of half a dozen black outs that I've experienced first-hand. Every one of them was caused by a multitude of things.

    The most common systems that cause blackouts are the fuel and exhaust systems. These ships are constantly getting new green policy after new green policy thrown at them because they are big easy targets for environmentalists. I get it. These policies include, but are not limited to, running only low-sulphur diesel fuel, which is cleaner but much less efficient. And there are more and more filters and sensors on the systems these days due to green policies, as well as additional scrubbers and urea systems to keep the exhaust clean. All of which are more potential points for problems and failures. If something isn't running right, it can cause a black-out. The International Maritime Organization has recently required engine power and shaft limiters to be in place to reduce engine speeds and thus reduce emissions. These limiters can be mechanical, or software based. They are supposed to be removed for pilotage, that's a topic we are currently working through nation-wide. Some shipping companies are not allowing their vessels to remove the limiters, even for pilotage in congested waters for fear of being fined. Anyway, there are so many moving parts that all need to be working and communicating correctly to move these ships.

    When the main engine (plant) goes down on a cargo ship like Dhali, power is lost across the entire vessel. Lights, pumps, motors, fans, A/C, heat, steering gear, everything is lost. An emergency generator is supposed to automatically kick on (tested and ran weekly) and provide power to what we always called the E-bus. That bus panel is normally powered by the main generator(s) but is the only one connected to the E-gen. It will only have special "emergency" equipment like the fire pumps and other fire suppression systems, a couple ballast pumps and ballast valve controls, some lighting, and steering gear. I would imagine that when the ship went black, the plant was lost, less than a minute later the lights coming back on might have just been the E-gen coming on and powering that specific bus. It was not until the big puff of black smoke rolls out that they got an engine order. Probably astern based on seeing the vessel yaw more to starboard and from listening to the news reports. The yaw to stbd is what a standard right-handed propeller will do when working astern.


    This is all terrible for the loss of people and the families of those lost. It's terrible for the ship crew and pilots too who are going to be answering questions and maybe feeling blame. Hopefully there was no human error. Nothing directly at the exact lead up to the incident at least. I think the pilots did everything they could, who, remember, are really only there for guidance and local knowledge of the waterway. The captain is always in charge of the vessel and the crew, even when pilots are on board. The pilot(s) did an amazing job alerting the MD transportation and got the bridge traffic shut down as fast as possible. That call undoubtedly saved lives.

    One thing that puzzles me is why they made a Mayday call. That's for when you are in distress, sinking and need help. As if THEY were about to die. An alert should have been made with a Pan Pan call or maybe even just a Securite to alert other traffic. Not asking for emergency assistance. Here I am monday morning quarterbacking.

    One thing that always bugs me around a maritime incident is all the jack holes that start coming out of the woodwork saying their dad had a 30' sport fisher or they themselves have a 6-pack captain license to give guided pleasure boat trips so think they know all things maritime now.

    I ruled out terrorism in my own mind right away because I just don't think 01:30 would have been their plan. They would have acted during rush hour. For the ship handling point of view this happened at the worst possible time and place along their transit. But it happened at the best possible time of day to reduce the injury and death toll. If there is a silver lining, that's it.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
    - Mark Twain

  5. #55
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    Mystery solved!

    (Though actually I heard it was Trump's fault)FB_IMG_1711578279795.jpg

  6. #56
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    What's bothering me is that ABC News just reported the apparently good news that divers had recovered the ship's black box. Divers?......

  7. #57
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    Uhhhhh

    Pretty sure the Coast Guard recovered that off the ship which is still afloat.

    ABC News is staffed by retarded people.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by matemike View Post
    I'm a harbor pilot in Texas.
    Quality post, thank you for contributing.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by matemike View Post
    I'm a harbor pilot in Texas.
    While it is not a normal thing for a ship to "black out", it does happen. The causes could be endless.
    In my 20 years of working on ships all over the world, I can easily think of half a dozen black outs that I've experienced first-hand. Every one of them was caused by a multitude of things.

    The most common systems that cause blackouts are the fuel and exhaust systems. These ships are constantly getting new green policy after new green policy thrown at them because they are big easy targets for environmentalists. I get it. These policies include, but are not limited to, running only low-sulphur diesel fuel, which is cleaner but much less efficient. And there are more and more filters and sensors on the systems these days due to green policies, as well as additional scrubbers and urea systems to keep the exhaust clean. All of which are more potential points for problems and failures. If something isn't running right, it can cause a black-out. The International Maritime Organization has recently required engine power and shaft limiters to be in place to reduce engine speeds and thus reduce emissions. These limiters can be mechanical, or software based. They are supposed to be removed for pilotage, that's a topic we are currently working through nation-wide. Some shipping companies are not allowing their vessels to remove the limiters, even for pilotage in congested waters for fear of being fined. Anyway, there are so many moving parts that all need to be working and communicating correctly to move these ships.

    When the main engine (plant) goes down on a cargo ship like Dhali, power is lost across the entire vessel. Lights, pumps, motors, fans, A/C, heat, steering gear, everything is lost. An emergency generator is supposed to automatically kick on (tested and ran weekly) and provide power to what we always called the E-bus. That bus panel is normally powered by the main generator(s) but is the only one connected to the E-gen. It will only have special "emergency" equipment like the fire pumps and other fire suppression systems, a couple ballast pumps and ballast valve controls, some lighting, and steering gear. I would imagine that when the ship went black, the plant was lost, less than a minute later the lights coming back on might have just been the E-gen coming on and powering that specific bus. It was not until the big puff of black smoke rolls out that they got an engine order. Probably astern based on seeing the vessel yaw more to starboard and from listening to the news reports. The yaw to stbd is what a standard right-handed propeller will do when working astern.


    This is all terrible for the loss of people and the families of those lost. It's terrible for the ship crew and pilots too who are going to be answering questions and maybe feeling blame. Hopefully there was no human error. Nothing directly at the exact lead up to the incident at least. I think the pilots did everything they could, who, remember, are really only there for guidance and local knowledge of the waterway. The captain is always in charge of the vessel and the crew, even when pilots are on board. The pilot(s) did an amazing job alerting the MD transportation and got the bridge traffic shut down as fast as possible. That call undoubtedly saved lives.

    One thing that puzzles me is why they made a Mayday call. That's for when you are in distress, sinking and need help. As if THEY were about to die. An alert should have been made with a Pan Pan call or maybe even just a Securite to alert other traffic. Not asking for emergency assistance. Here I am monday morning quarterbacking.

    One thing that always bugs me around a maritime incident is all the jack holes that start coming out of the woodwork saying their dad had a 30' sport fisher or they themselves have a 6-pack captain license to give guided pleasure boat trips so think they know all things maritime now.

    I ruled out terrorism in my own mind right away because I just don't think 01:30 would have been their plan. They would have acted during rush hour. For the ship handling point of view this happened at the worst possible time and place along their transit. But it happened at the best possible time of day to reduce the injury and death toll. If there is a silver lining, that's it.
    Curious why a ship that large wouldn't have tugs assisting with maneuvering? Is that not a thing for these large cargo vessels? YTB types.....

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKGuns View Post
    Curious why a ship that large wouldn't have tugs assisting with maneuvering? Is that not a thing for these large cargo vessels? YTB types.....
    They did for maneuvering away from the docks. Once they were in the lanes and under their own power, the tugs disengaged.
    What if this whole crusade's a charade?
    And behind it all there's a price to be paid
    For the blood which we dine
    Justified in the name of the holy and the divine…

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