95gr 9mm

[TiroFijo]

Thanks! I see the comparison table is very similar for all loadings:

RA9124TP ; RA9TA ; RA9BAB and RA9T

It is obvious that the windshield test is the hardest, at least for these bullets, and the 124 gr bonded RA9BAB and 147 gr RA9T have a small advantage here. The 127 gr +P+ RA9TA is actually the worst performer on auto glass... what is its claim to fame to justify the +P+ rating?

[tpd223]

The 127gr round runs right at 1325fps from my Glock 17, that would be it's claim to fame.

In gelatin tests that I have either watched or conducted, I have seen a toss-up between all of the above rounds as far as which penetrates more.

I have seen the 127gr penetrate more than the 147gr Ranger-T in bare gello,,,, I have seen the non bonded bullets out penetrate the Gold Dot on occasion, through windshield glass that is.

Hence the term "average" when dealing with bullet performance.

All the above work well. I'd say pick one and quit worrying about bullets, worry about training instead.

[TiroFijo]

Wow!! that's a 168 PF out of a stock G17, with factory ammo... it's like a 357 Sig on a 9x19 envelope, but that's also a 20% increase in recoil impulse and it must take a toll on the gun's durability, or at least some parts/springs. The G17 is very tolerant of hot loads, but I would not use it in other models without modifications.

The thing is, this HOT load does not seem to have a significant (if any) advantage in terminal effects, at least regarding FBI testing, so why pick it over milder loads that achieve the same results? Particularly the windshield test is very hard on bullets, and seems to be even harder on faster bullets that do not have a lot of sectional density like this one.

[TOrrock]

The Austrians have used some Hirtengerger 95gr. JSP and IIRC it was loaded to +P+.

My exposure to the ammo was about 15-18 years ago though.

[Failure2Stop]

Forgot to update this- confirmed that the bullets in question are indeed JSP.
Not that it shines any more light on anything though.

[tpd223]

I don't mind the recoil on the 127gr round, it's certainly less, to me at least, than using a .40.

I like the performance characteristics, that it shoots flat way out there (I can hit steel at the 150 with no issues), and I like how it penetrates certain barriers very well.

It's like having a .357Sig without the loss of ammo in your mag or the extra cost of practice ammo.

[TiroFijo]

Thanks tpd223

I´m sure the recoil is not excessive on the shooter, but I was thinking of the vastly increased recoil impulse (20% more momentum) that cycles the gun, the slide velocity is higher, impact on the frame is higher, you must have a strong gun, good recoil and mag springs, etc.

[ToddG]

Any quality modern handgun rated for SAAMI 9x19mm +p specs should be able to handle the occasional diet of RA9TA (and similar major-brand +p+ ammo) without much trouble. Certainly it will accelerate wear but it won't kill the gun in a day.

I've shot plenty of it through Glocks, Berettas, SIGs, and M&Ps without any trouble.

When I was at Beretta, we actually had a letter we sent to LE agencies telling them that internal testing showed +p+ ammo from the four major manufacturers produced less wear on the gun than standard NATO-spec 9mm (M882).

The S&W M&P9 was specifically designed to handle RA9TA. The little teardrop cut you see underneath the striker channel in the breechface is there due to early testing with that load.

[TiroFijo]

When I was at Beretta, we actually had a letter we sent to LE agencies telling them that internal testing showed +p+ ammo from the four major manufacturers produced less wear on the gun than standard NATO-spec 9mm (M882).
.

Todd, was it the old M882 loading with the 112 gr bullet or the new with a 124 gr one?

I see the (relatively new) NATO standard for 9x19 is 36,550 psi, piezo electric transducer, pressure recorded in C.I.P. design barrel at mid case position, fairly close to CIP standards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_EPVAT_testing

Do you know how this NATO pressure relates to SAAMI normal 9x19 pressure and +P, since a different method is used?

What about 9x19 in +P+? SAAMI does not have a pressure rating, what is the major US manufacturers adopted pressure?

[ToddG]

124gr.

I don't believe there is a really reliable way to translate between CUP and psi.

Some US-made "+p+" ammo is actually (allegedly) within +p spec. Others are probably touching the 40-42kpsi level. I've got some 115gr +p+ Gold Dot in my locker downstairs and I want to say it's supposed to be around 42k.