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Thread: Red Loctite?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    Whoa


    Loctite has no place on an AR. hahahah. Its got no place on a bolt carrier, where the heat will render it ineffective. Everywhere else its fine, including on a castle nut.

    Wrong.

    It will seize the buffer tube to the castle nut and you will strip out the keyway in the buffer tube should you decide to remove the assembly.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    Whoa



    Re heat. Heating the guards to 300 deg will not hurt them. At that temp loctite red has lost half its holding strength. What matters is that you apply the heat carefully and locally to the screws.

    Don

    Can you tell me how you know you will heat this to 300 F and not 500 F or 800 F?
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
    I've seen ARs without the use of Loc-Tite have ejecting optics etc in class.....YMMV.

    excuse me, that was meant to be RED loctite.

    blue loctite and optics mounts are fine.

    and im sick to death of retards telling everyone else to loctite the damn castlenut. THAT IS NOT HOW THIS WAS ENGINEERED. THE CASTLE NUT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PHYSICALLY LOCKED TO THE BUFFER TUBE. IT IS MEANT TO BE PHYSICALLY LOCKED TO THE PLATE...THAT IS HOW IT WAS DESIGNED.

    thanks scottryan for jumping in on that one.
    Last edited by ARin; 01-30-09 at 00:19.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    p.s. some day I'm going to make millions by buying brake cleaner and repackaging it as "USGIMOlleSocomPicatinnyA1 Assembly Cleaner" for $19/can
    You forgot to use "tactical & M4" in your brand name. If the heat thing doesn't work & the head is stripped out, try a left handed drill bit to drill the screw out. It will generate heat as you drill & will also be applying a counterclockwise force which may back the screw out. This method has worked well for me on numerous occasions. use a soldering iron with no worries. PURE aluminum melts at approx 1200 degrees & the 60XX+ series that most aluminum gun parts are made melts at a much higher temperature than that.
    Last edited by a1fabweld; 01-30-09 at 00:28.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARin View Post
    excuse me, that was meant to be RED loctite.

    blue loctite and optics mounts are fine.

    and im sick to death of retards telling everyone else to loctite the damn castlenut. THAT IS NOT HOW THIS WAS ENGINEERED. THE CASTLE NUT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PHYSICALLY LOCKED TO THE BUFFER TUBE. IT IS MEANT TO BE PHYSICALLY LOCKED TO THE PLATE...THAT IS HOW IT WAS DESIGNED.

    thanks scottryan for jumping in on that one.
    I agree Loc-Tite shouldn't be used on the castle nut, receiver extension. Torque and staking hold this assembly together. Using torque and staking I've never had one come lose.

    I sometimes use green Loc-Tite to 'bed' gas blocks to barrels and barrel extensions to upper receivers after lapping the front edge of the receiver threads. Lapping the upper receiver threads is sometimes used to allow the barrel nut to align/index under the 80ft lbs limit of barrel nut torque. Squaring up the receiver threads also ensures that the bore of the barrel is perfectly concentric to the bore of the upper receiver. These are methods that can get you under .5" MOA groups if using a good barrel and ammo. These are not things needed for plain M4 style guns. These are methods used for Varmint, Hi-Power and Precision guns where you're trying the squeeze all the accuracy that you can.

    Red Loc-Tite doesn't hurt if used between the carrier key to carrier (it's used to create a better gas seal, not as a thread locker). Torque and staking will also hold this together well. But I have had them come lose when only using torque and staking.
    I use red Loc-Tite or Rocksett to ensure a better gas seal. I also lap the bottom of the carrier key on a whetstone which ensures that it's perfectly flat and/or not warped. I also torque higher then the spec in the TM. I torque the carrier key screws to 50-55in lbs. My methods work very well. So well that I've never had to 'fix' a lose or leaking carrier key after using my methods and I've installed several hundred carrier keys to date.

    To remove the screws and carrier key when using Rocksett the carrier must be submerged in water for 24hrs or more, for red Loc-tite removal it requires heat from a heatgun which takes about 5min. The carrier can survive either.
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  6. #36
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    just a note: green loctite is the kind intended to be added AFTER the parts are installed.

    Wow. Thats why I love this place already. I know mechanical things, but now that I understand this:

    THE CASTLE NUT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PHYSICALLY LOCKED TO THE BUFFER TUBE. IT IS MEANT TO BE PHYSICALLY LOCKED TO THE PLATE...THAT IS HOW IT WAS DESIGNED.

    I understand the argument against using loctite. Its not that it wont hold, its that the castle nut should not be retained by the buffer tube, but rather by the end plate.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    just a note: green loctite is the kind intended to be added AFTER the parts are installed.

    I can't get my big fingers between the gas block and barrel and/or barrel extension and upper receiver when they're assembled to add the green loc-tite. So I add it before assembling. YMMV.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  8. #38
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    Well speaking of the favorite thing I love to hate (Loc-Tite). About 20 minutes ago some High Drag Low Speed operator (AT&T type) comes in with his issue Bushamster outfitted with some type of CAA "sniper stock". My first question was where did the stock come from and who installed it. I got the standard deer in headlights look and then "uh yeah so and so said it was okay and he put the stock on". I politely reminded him of the company SOP concerning weapons modifications. Next question was how do you remove this thing?

    So we start pulling it apart and I see some type of set screw that goes down and locks into one of the recess holes on the lower receiver extension. Try and remove it, no dice. Well come to find out that someone put red Loc-Tite on the screw and then cranked it into place. After a few minutes of direct heat we were able to break it loose. Lessons learned:

    1. CAA is crap anyways so why did you it?
    2. It's always good to let the armorer install it so it is done correctly.
    3. Know which type of Loc-Tite should be used for the intended application.



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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
    I agree Loc-Tite shouldn't be used on the castle nut, receiver extension. Torque and staking hold this assembly together. Using torque and staking I've never had one come lose.

    I sometimes use green Loc-Tite to 'bed' gas blocks to barrels and barrel extensions to upper receivers after lapping the front edge of the receiver threads. Lapping the upper receiver threads is sometimes used to allow the barrel nut to align/index under the 80ft lbs limit of barrel nut torque. Squaring up the receiver threads also ensures that the bore of the barrel is perfectly concentric to the bore of the upper receiver. These are methods that can get you under .5" MOA groups if using a good barrel and ammo. These are not things needed for plain M4 style guns. These are methods used for Varmint, Hi-Power and Precision guns where you're trying the squeeze all the accuracy that you can.

    Red Loc-Tite doesn't hurt if used between the carrier key to carrier (it's used to create a better gas seal, not as a thread locker). Torque and staking will also hold this together well. But I have had them come lose when only using torque and staking.
    I use red Loc-Tite or Rocksett to ensure a better gas seal. I also lap the bottom of the carrier key on a whetstone which ensures that it's perfectly flat and/or not warped. I also torque higher then the spec in the TM. I torque the carrier key screws to 50-55in lbs. My methods work very well. So well that I've never had to 'fix' a lose or leaking carrier key after using my methods and I've installed several hundred carrier keys to date.

    To remove the screws and carrier key when using Rocksett the carrier must be submerged in water for 24hrs or more, for red Loc-tite removal it requires heat from a heatgun which takes about 5min. The carrier can survive either.
    these are some pretty fancy jedi master builds gotm4....i would argue that loctite at the gaskey probably doesnt last that long...i would imagine it would burn off at this location relatively quickly or just be dissolved by heat/pressure/solvents.

    I really cant speak to loctite being used in any of those situations...as i have never done those things...
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  10. #40
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    Loc-tite 609 will work on gas key screws. But, it still gets staked.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

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